"cheater" sight, by Sam Hawken

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I promised I'd comment on the pro's and con's of this sight once I'd given it a go.  I have had to wait until my right shoulder healed up enough to take the recoil of my "Squib" loads, but now I've shot it twice for a total of about 85 rounds, and don't feel any the worse for it.
As you may recall, my front sight was very close to the muzzle (oops) and high off the barrel.  Using the centre of the "aperture" for a centre hold on my target at 50 yds. I ended up filing that front sight down to about 1/8" off the barrel.  I stopp0ed when I got to this stage, rather than filing it down to use the nick at the bottom of the opening though I might do so in the future some time.  So, with 90 grains FFg GOEX, .020" spit lubed ticking patch, I was able to keep all my shots in the black, whether off the bench or off-hand.  It was a good start, and I know more testing is in order.

On Sunday, I shot our trail, and found the sight very easy to use at targets 10 to 110 yards.  I was able to cut two intersecting lines and cut a playing card at close range, and ring targets that were out there too.  I like the sight - it's amazing how your eye will centre it without effort.

[Skychief]

I had not forgot this sight DTS.   Thanks for the report and please update us as you shoot this rifle more!

Skychief.

[Curtis]

Thanks for the update, Taylor!  Please keep us posted as your experience with the sight grows.

[Don Getz]

Very neat taylor, should aid old shooters, but, under the strict rules of open sight shooting, that sight is illegal.   I guess
you knew that when you called it your "cheater" sight.........Don

[Harnic]

Very neat taylor, should aid old shooters, but, under the strict rules of open sight shooting, that sight is illegal.   I guess
you knew that when you called it your "cheater" sight.........Don

Don, it may be illegal south of the border, but is widely accepted in Canada.  We are willing to accept that we all age & need an aid or two to keep those youngsters in line!  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I don't think that anyone here will object to the use of this sight, Don.  It's Daryl that calls it my "cheater" sight, and he calls my loads, "squib" loads too.  Ha!!
I'm excited about the sight, and am looking forward to testing at 100 and 200 yards.

Harry, the nick in the bottom and the split in the top do not take away in the least from the aperture effect of this sight.  I think it'll work for you too.  I found that on our moving target - a flying duck - one needs to keep both eyes open because it's easy to lose the target with the left eye closed.  Similarly, shooting at the playing card on edge, keeping both eyes open made my sight picture cleaner.

[northmn]

I do not know if they are legal now but they used to have  a cheater sight mounted close to the breech that had an open top whcih was used and worked similar to a peep sight.  Personally I am all for them as shooting should be a test of skill not eyesight.

DP

[Daryl]

I don't see this well any more. There are only 3 holes visible, but it's a 25 yard offhand target which was shot with a brand new .45 Bauska barrel with shots  #'d 6,7,8,9 and 10' th out of the brand new new barrel.  The edges of the 3 visible holes form almost a perfect cloverleaf.  I say almost, as there is some overlapp of the holes making the group measure less than ball size, which started out as .454", from a .448" bore size rifle. The grooves were .028" deep.  According to the rules for international scoring, I'd would probably score that as a 50/4X.

In going through my pictures looking for pics. of sight pictures, I saw this and thought about what David said- about eye sight - Yes - I would love to see this well again - maybe I'm going to make up a set of new 'sights' myself, to help counteract my failing eye sight. Of course, my shakes and bobbles cannot be corrected with a sight change.

This target was shot with a normal silver blade front sight and V notch rear sight.

[Harnic]

Harry, the nick in the bottom and the split in the top do not take away in the least from the aperture effect of this sight.  I think it'll work for you too.  I found that on our moving target - a flying duck - one needs to keep both eyes open because it's easy to lose the target with the left eye closed.  Similarly, shooting at the playing card on edge, keeping both eyes open made my sight picture cleaner.

It looks very promising Taylor & I'll definitely be making something similar for my new barrel.  I like the close range notch as well as the slot at the top which will be very useful at distance.  This sight combined with my new Anschutz iris attachment for my glasses should put me back on a more equal footing with the youngsters at Heffley! 

[Roger B]

I was in Santa Fe, NM last week & saw a virtually identical sight on an 1874 Sharps.  The slot between the buckhorns was much tighter than this one & the "peep" aperature was higher, with a tiny blade slot at the bottom.  The buckhorns were wider at the top, providing a virtual sun shade for the aperature, but the basic idea was the same. The forward screw hole for the original sight had the screw in it, but the replacement was dovetailed into the barrel where the rear screw would have been.  The sight was by no means crude & was obviously made by someone with skill & good tools.  No other obvious, major, modifications to the rifle. The tag simply said that it was "found" after an Apache raid on a town. No photos allowed in the historical museum or I would post pictures.  Now I have to try to make one.
Roger B.

[Daryl]

The sight on Taylor's Hawken (above) is identical to the rear sight on the original S. Hawken Taylor emulated when building this one.

We used to use full buckhorn sights (like Track's) - back in the 70's for most of our shooting at the Squamish range. 50yards was normally the closest we shot - then 100 and then out at 325. Bit of a jump there.  With Taylor's .62 Hawken(then) and my .50 1/2 stock plains rifle, we continually smacked a 14" rock on the side of the "Chief"- shot after shot.  Even Tracy's little Seneca, with the little bullets and 65gr. 2F managed that rock regularly.

They are good sights for aging eyes, if used in this way.  We used the bottom notch for close range (50 to 100) and the curl at the top for the long range shooting.  If or when I put one on my .40 cal. rifle, it will be a low buckhorn like the one on Taylor's Hawken.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I took the rifle out to the range a couple weeks ago, and tried the sight at 200 yds.  I was surprised at how little elevation I had to use to be on the paper at 200 yds.  I had up'd my load from 85 grains FFg to 120, but my shoulder quit before I was able to zero it in.  Shooting from a bench, that butt plate is hard on my scrawny shoulder.  I went to the gun shop on the way home, and bought a shoulder protector.  I'll try again when I have healed up enough to make shooting it comfortable again. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Don, why is it not legal where you shoot?

[Daryl]

I believe the reason it isn't allowed, is they have a rule that "no place inside the notch can be narrower than the maximum width".  The U notch I drew and posted above, needs to have straight vertical sides from the middle of the notch, then it would be OK.  I am told that form with taller sides, is becomming popular in chunk as it is used the same as a peep sigth.   The bead is drawn down to the bottom where the distance from side it side is the same as to the bottom.  I can see that working almost as well as a peep and looking normal to the eye as well.

 Mark H. of this site, who won the postal chunk 2 years in a row, has that form of sight on his rifle I understand.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Does Mark use that sight on his offhand/hunting rifle?  Or is he using a designated chunk rifle for that match?

[Candle Snuffer]

I like the sight Taylor.  We may very well have some folks at Northwest Nebraska Shooter's Assoc. jump on this.  It's legal
to use within our White River Brigade and I don't think a person would have to much trouble (if any at all) showing up on
the firing line of some of the Rendezvous I go to. 

The NMLRA may have a different view of this sight, as well as our State Shoot muzzle loading rules, but out here in the open
spaces,,, we're all for it, and we welcome it to our firing line.

I will add that, when at State or National level comps, I would abide by their ruling on sights.

[Daryl]

Does Mark use that sight on his offhand/hunting rifle?  Or is he using a designated chunk rifle for that match?

That match was ruled for trail walk, hunting-type rifles only - no dedicated chunk rifles, so I sure he used a normal offhand, hunting/trail walk rifle like the rest of the entrants.  Mark's a good shot and he did very well with that sight and it bears testing.  

[Roger B]

According to NMLRA open sight rules, buckhorn sights must have at least a 1/4" opening between the tips of the "horns" and the notch has to be at least as wide at the top as they are at the bottom, using a U, V, or rectangular slot.  The rear sight has to be at least 6" from the breech. That is my interpretation of the rules I just read. I think this sight could be made legitimately NMLRA legal, but it might not be quite as effective.
Roger B.