Gunshop floor

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

OK so my gunshop has migrated to the room above the garage in my house...the climate is much better than the garage and my wife appreciates the cleared off kitchen table and lack of sawdust on the kitchen floor............

So I am getting ready to put 10" wide pine plank flooring in the shop..... now the idea is that should we decide to sell this house in the future all signs of gunshop would disappear .... So no shelves fastened to the walls etc everything free standing. 

Now about the flooring.  What would be the best finish to put on it to protect it from stain from gunmaking..like filings from locks etc and a drop or two of oil now and the...quickly wiped up of course......... I want it to look pretty natural and soft.... Maybe just wax?

What say you??

[eagle24]

Tim,

I'm in the building supply business, so I can give you a little advice.  I would coat it with a polyurethane finish made for floors.  Gymseal and UGL are two good product choices and both offer satin/semi-gloss finishes.  If you get anything on it you can wipe it up right away, or you can not be so careful and if you move just go over it with a floor sander and recoat.

BTW, I saw you at the show in Clinton and meant to say hi.  You were busy talking to some folks and I let the opportunity slip by before we got gone.

[JDK]

I agree, poly made for floors.  Last I checked Home Depot had a brand in a white jug that was not on the shelf but out where they rent the equipment with the floor refinishing stuff.  It was a water based poly, low fume, fast drying and wears like iron.  Wish I new the brand   I remember it was allot less than the famous brands and was very easy to work with and resist spills.  After it cures I would put down some of those thick cushion rubber mats like they sell at Woodcraft....they are a real fatigue and tool saver and also protect the floor....when you move roll 'em up and take 'em to the new shop.  enjoy, J.D.K.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Great input guys!!! Its going to be a few weeks yet but I am trying to get everything lined up and on hand!!

"BTW, I saw you at the show in Clinton and meant to say hi.  You were busy talking to some folks and I let the opportunity slip by before we got gone."

Yeah I saw you as well and we just both were busy talking with somebody else.... next time!!

[Captchee]

 

 been doing floors for 20+ years.
  And am certified  by most all the major manufactures , not only for pre finished but  unfinished woods . As well as carpet ,VY , Lam and Tiles .
 
 there are many different products out there now  for woods . the days of the old Poly an oil finishes are about gone, even tho many of the new coatings are poly or oil based .
 to day you have alot of choices . some of the best you cant put on yourself   even higher then that is the metal type  or baked on finishes which have to be  applied at the factory at very high temps
 so  understand that when Ghall says polyurethane, he isnt just talking any old poly like minwax  .
 
 since this will go on a pine floor , you want a good penetrate  type finish . not just a surface finish . The reason for this is because  the pine today is low grade “ unless you actually using a pine  that is acceptable for floors” yess there are such pines that are actually higher on the janka scale them maple is  .
 But from what I gather your talking simple  pine  from the lumber yard . So , Not only will it not be to relative humidity , but it also will be full of  sap.. As such any surface ONLY  finish   you put on , will then   blister as the boards  draw and  weep  also know as shrinking an bleeding . That will happen just as soon as  the wood seals up  and the boards stop breathing . then you board will start to cup
Myself
 I would go with a urethane  2 part epoxy like Bio clear 810  but only after your floor has properly cured  which means its below 7-8% MC

 If you do decide to go to someplace like Home  depot or Lowes , make sure  the finish your applying is  designed for soft woods . Also READ THE WARNING LABLE .
 Many of the better coatings put on today have to be well ventilated through the   application . NOTICE I SAID THROUGHOUT  THE APPLICATION .
 Every year people end up with fires because they  plug in some fan or a pilot light kicks on  during the curing process . So know and understand what your doing .
 When a product say well ventilated , it means that .

 Myself I would not go to either of the above home improvement places  . I say that after working as a certified and licensed installer/ lead/ instulation inspector    from both  and still working for one  .

 Go to where  contractors  buy  through . Places like T&A and Midwest  or pyramid distributing  all of which  deal in contractor grade flooring material NOT home improvement .
 If you find you don’t have a distributor close  then go to a retailer who  sells and installs unfinished floors . Go over with them exactly what it is your doing  to include  the type of  wood your using for flooring .  There is a difference between  true PINE  plank flooring and  the pine T&G  1X or 2X you get at the lumber yard . Again  don’t forget to discuss you ventilation needs

[eagle24]

Captchee is right when he says there is a difference between 1x10 pine and wide plank flooring.  He is also right about the resin problems, moisture content, and cupping as well as checking.  I would almost guarantee you will have cupping and shrinkage.  However, I have sold thousands of feet of ponderosa pine shelving grade 1x for use as flooring over the years when a customer understood what he was getting and wanted a rustic floor.

I have also ordered flooring from this company (located in GA) for a couple of jobs in the past.  Not sure how far they are from you.  Hope it's OK to post the link.

http://www.authenticpinefloors.com/

[jeager58]

 will this floor have a sub floor under it   ie...plywood  and if so are you going to put in true plank or will it be tongue and groove.     If this is going to be true plank I would forgo it and put down vinyl.    all the burs and saw dust  will get in between the planks and will be a source of constant dirt  .  just my opinion...Phil

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

It is real pine plank flooring from Authentic Pine Floors here near by. I will go pick it up at the store. Itd dried to 6-8% when delivered.
http://www.authenticpinefloors.com/

I would love to do it with their antique planks cut from 100+ year old beams from the Old Crow Distillery!!    

[Tim Crosby]

    The floor is one thing but what you actually stand on is another. FWIW; I have back problems and after years of trying different things I came up with this combination. Thick mats made for standing on for long periods, Lowes has them (By the way I don't know if it is just here or all Lowes but if you can show military service you will get a 10% discount). The other part of the equation is a pair of LL Bean boots, they have very thick soles. May sound strange but the combination really works, at least for me.

 Tim C.

[Jim Kibler]

This doesn't have anything to do with the floor, but you mentioned not fastening anything to walls etc.  I would suggest compromising and fastening your bench unless it is extremely heavy ( at least greater than 300-400 pounds at a guess).  You need a rock solid bench.  The only option I can see is to make it very substantial and provide a place for significant weight near the bottom.  Now I'm sure some are going to either think or say that this kind of worry isn't necessary, but I'll stand by it.  You may be able to get away with less, but you will be much happier with a set-up as suggested.

[Dennis Glazener]

What would be the best finish to put on it to protect it from stain from gunmaking

The best?~~~~~~~~~~~~ that would aqua fortis
Dennis

[Captchee]

 ok so   what your getting is not the pine we know today . IE it wont  be as soft as you think .
Plank flooring  is also most time Tung and grove

 see old original pine  thats reclaimed , is most times whats called hartwood . heartwood is  the core  of very old pines . normally long leaf pine .  if its true  heartwood  it also wont be  white to yellow , but dark .. The more yellow and white in your boards , the less true heartwood you have and the softer the  wood will be
 today pine comes from much younger trees and they never get to the age to developed good heartwood as such what we get is the softer   wood .
 good  long leaf heart pine normaly is around 1200 on the hardness scale "Janka scale " . where the white pines we know today are down in the 300 range
 to give you some idea  maple is around 1400. believe it or not white oak   isnt much harder then  heartwood pine  in that its just a tad over 1300 . so be advised that if  your boards are not T&G ,   you better drill before ou try and nail

 also unless this is at least 6 quarter , your going to need a sub floor. myself  i would HIGHLY recommend a sub floor  regardless of the thickness of your boards   . today allot of folks use OSB in 3/4 + . We used to use 1x fir  set to a 45 deg angle . That works well but its just costs to much now days  and its also subject to movement which will cause squeaking down the road .  
Plywood  is better  IMO  as it will hold nails  and staples far better .
 do yourself a favor an also put down a vapor barrier prior to  installing your wood . remember only your surface will have a finish . As such  especially in a 2nd floor without  insulation below it  the wood  will draw moisture from the air . So as your relative humidity  grows or drops , your floor will contract and expand.
 Now they make  specially vapor barriers. But good old roofing felt works very well .
As to  the dryness . I don’t care what they tell you . It will not be 7-8% unless they have had it stickered. Even then it will not be any lower in MC then where they have it stored . You will need to take it in and let it Acclimate  to  your home  or shop area  for at least 72 hours pror to install .  .
 This issue is the very reason  HW contractors carry  Moisture detectors . I personally have seen   new Oak flooring that even after 72 hours in the home , still measured at over 17% MC  the higher that MC , the more shrinking and warping you will get  .
 i once even  measered  a palitized  and stickered  oak flooring at well over 20%  as it was being unloaded off the truck

 From what im seeing on your web link , your going to have a very nice floor . So do  the best surface you can  .
Sure going to make for a nice shop , that’s for sure .

[Captchee]

PS . also know that things like throw rugs made from scrap carpet will  scuff the  finish of the floor far more then normal traffic will .
also be wear of those  mats with yellow foam rubber backing . they also can discolor not only  the finish on your HW but also Vinyl floors . so if you do end up using mats . make sure they are of good rubber

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Wow a master's Degree in plank flooring!!   You guys are very helpful  (well...except for the comment about Aqua Fortis..Dennis!)

Captchee your experience is very helpful.  Tim I will get some black rubber mats to stand on.. and help protect the floor from spills!
So Captchee, what do you think about the finish JDK mentioned seeing at Home Depot  with their floor finishing machines?? Sounds pretty good.... Course I will ask the supplier...although he is undoubtedly biased toward the finishes he sells.



Yes tongue and grove wide planks of 50-70% heartwood.


I have angle on some planks from huge Southern white pines that are over 100 years old ... but it will take to long to get them dried, sawn and milled... so this look like the best alternative, especially since I can go to the shop and pick out my boards!! and load them on my trailer.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

This doesn't have anything to do with the floor, but you mentioned not fastening anything to walls etc.  I would suggest compromising and fastening your bench unless it is extremely heavy ( at least greater than 300-400 pounds at a guess).  You need a rock solid bench.  The only option I can see is to make it very substantial and provide a place for significant weight near the bottom.  Now I'm sure some are going to either think or say that this kind of worry isn't necessary, but I'll stand by it.  You may be able to get away with less, but you will be much happier with a set-up as suggested.

Jim, I have a light portable bench/vise I got from Tip Curtis  and a 150 llb bench.  I plan to put very heavy sections of beam on the feet at both ends and try that.... my old bench in the garage is fastened down so I know what you mean. It makes a big difference...... I am hoping the four pieces of wood weiging about 50 lbs apiece will be solid enough..... Or else I will have to invent a repairable way to fasten the benches to the floor......... Or, do you find the wall to be better...I can see that it might be..

[T*O*F]

If you aren't planning to move anytime soon, I'd forego nice flooring and just put down 1/4" plywood down and cover it with indoor-outdoor carpeting.  Screw it down and it is easily removed later in case the room usage changes.  No Harm...No Foul.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Yeah Dave , but the pine looks so good!!! even as it gets scarred actually..... I have to take the carpet out and make sure the plywood subfloor is level etc. before laying the pine.  Gonna start pulling the carpet out in a week or so, get the subfloor cleaned up, haul in the pine and let it set a week and then go to it  So by September I might be done!!

[rich pierce]

I certainly agree that putting down the good flooring is the efficient thing to do.  If you're going to clean up the space and get it sales-ready just in case, it's smart to only do it once.  It might not hurt to put an old carpet on top to protect everything and be easier on you too.

[Captchee]

So Captchee, what do you think about the finish JDK mentioned seeing at Home Depot  with their floor finishing machines?? Sounds pretty good.... Course I will ask the supplier...although he is undoubtedly biased toward the finishes he sells.

 myself , i dont use it . again its  designed for the do it yourselfer who  needs a quick finish ..will it work , yes . is it the best , no . now the 2 part epoxy finish that HD sells isn’t to bad of  a product .

as to the machines . If you rent  the sanders and such , make sure all the wheels are true  . This is very important for the big drum sanders especially. If they are not maintained properly , no amount of experience is going to  save your floor from having the humpy’s
And if your going to go  PC , then your floor should be hand drawn not sanded ,
LOL , had to throw that PC thing in there LOL
 I would tell you to talk with the people your getting your floor from . They will line you out .  While you might think they are biased, they should be selling what they fell is  the best product for their product . The other + is that if you run into an problem  during the install or finishing , you have someone to go to who actually Knows  . Not some collage kid or plumber who is working in the flooring dept that day.

Again , I would not   put carpet over your finished floor . The backing on carpet is like 30 grit sand paper . While you think its not going to move around and wear the floor , it will .
 Also remember  when it comes to used carpet , its full of all kinds of nastiest, grungies …… all that will migrate to your new floor . Even if you put a pad down . When you pull your carpet your going to see what in talking about .
 The dirt your going to find , we call Flour sand . Its actually so fine that  it will  go through the hypoallergenic   layer on the pad . It then migrates down on top of the main floor . No vacuum be it a professional or other , will get that stuff out . The longer the carpets been down , the more your will find . You don’t want that stuff building up on top of your new  finished wood floor

[jeager58]

1/4 inch plywood?   sounds very weak....phil

[Captchee]

1/4 inch plywood?   sounds very weak....phil

 depends  on what  you use
1/4 multi ply that certified as underlayment is very ,VERY strong . much stronger then  standard  CDX
 Multiply also know as Halex board  ,is a 3 to 6 ply  HW laminate, with alternating grains  for each layer. alot of it  is made of  Birch anymore  . Some of it even has impregnated fibers to add to the strength. Its also put together with marine grade glues  and  is finished on one side  to cabinet grade .
Also there is no voids in the layers like standard CDX
 Here in the US we normally produce such plywood’s in 3 layers , sometimes 4 . But the better underpayments are produced to European grade which means a 5 to 7 ply . Even though the layers are thinner , they are much stronger  .
 some of it even in 1/4 inch or 6mm carry rupture standers of very close to 8000lbs  when tested aginst the grain . Over 12000lbs  with the grain

here is a link  to the  specs  put out bu  Halex board
http://www.halexcorp.com/halex_underlayment_2e.shtml

as a note to this . i save my scraps of the above board and use it for paterning my SXS loads .
 if your load will produce complet pass through of the  shot at 30 yards . you can bet a dollar to a donut that no gobblers head is going to repell the load .

  

[Cody Tetachuk]

So I am getting ready to put 10" wide pine plank flooring in the shop..... now the idea is that should we decide to sell this house in the future all signs of gunshop would disappear .... So no shelves fastened to the walls etc everything free standing. 

If it were me, I would build the gunshop just as I want it to be with zero consideration for "should we decide to sell this house in the future". The reason being that why would I want to compromise MY gunshop for a maybe down the road. What if you don't sell for 10 years??. Wouldn't you enjoy those 10 years of gunbuilding more in a shop built to YOUR specs?. You aint gettin' any younger Tim. Enjoy the hobby to it's fullest NOW. Another thing to consider, if you do decide to sell down the road, a well appointed "wood working" shop may well be a selling feature. You just don't know who may be a buyer and many people have hobbies that require a shop. As far as the floor goes, I would leave it bare, let it get a natural "patina" through honest work. It's a shop after all.  

[Captchee]

So I am getting ready to put 10" wide pine plank flooring in the shop..... now the idea is that should we decide to sell this house in the future all signs of gunshop would disappear .... So no shelves fastened to the walls etc everything free standing. 

If it were me, I would build the gunshop just as I want it to be with zero consideration for "should we decide to sell this house in the future". The reason being that why would I want to compromise MY gunshop for a maybe down the road. What if you don't sell for 10 years??. Wouldn't you enjoy those 10 years of gunbuilding more in a shop built to YOUR specs?. You aint gettin' any younger Tim. Enjoy the hobby to it's fullest NOW. Another thing to consider, if you do decide to sell down the road, a well appointed "wood working" shop may well be a selling feature. You just don't know who may be a buyer and many people have hobbies that require a shop. As far as the floor goes, I would leave it bare, let it get a natural "patina" through honest work. It's a shop after all.  

sound word Cody

[Meteorman]

Yes tongue and grove wide planks of 50-70% heartwood.

I'm not a floor-meister like captchee, but i do have some experience with 100-yr-old heart pine flooring, resawn from old antique lumber/beams.
Got mine here  http://www.conklinsbarnwood.com/flooringMC.html 12 years ago and installed it myself.
had them mill it tongue and groove.
when installing, had to pilot drill (angle down thru the tongue for blindnailing) or the tongue would split or splinter half the time.
if I had to do it again, I'd face nail it and plug the countersunk holes with heart pine plugs.

Looks beautiful except for one thing - my biggest regret:   they told me to space the boards with 3/32" shims between the mating edges of the boards while nailing,  so there'd be room for expansion/movement of the boards.
Well, this was 100-yr-old heartwood, and I oiled and sealed with water-based poly both sides - they haven't moved a bit in 12 years (I've been watching ! ), and so I have these nice 3/32" crevices running down my floor catching dirt and fuzz  that do NOT need to be there. 
might want to avoid that Dr. Tim - those crevices would be great spots for tumbler flys and lug pins to go to die.

/mike



 

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Hmmm...no finish..?  have to think about that.......... Cody. I'am thinking you are right about doing it the way it should be...... I wil have to talk that thru with the wife......

Now, if you want to stop by and help move the bandsaw up the stairs you can consider that you have made two helpful contributions!!