Small Game

[blunderbuss]

Boy that's true Mike I've sit in my share of deer stands but where I hunt one has a choice. If the wind is blowing or it's real cold I get in the stand. When I was young I bought a .36 H&A underhammer but I didn't have the right size mould I think I had a .34 mould. As fate would have it I ended up having to hunt for a living with it for awhile. I would walk along the road and find wheel weights. I know it's to hard but what the heck It wasn't close to touching the bore any way and it was free.I'd wrap the ball in a couple layers of blue jean and just make close shots. Guys who say they won't eat squirrel  coon or possum just haven't been hungry enough. I walk for my health now but I'll still stop and pick up wheel weights I guess part of me is still back there.

[blunderbuss]

been a small game hunter all my life [since Granddad took me quail hunting with him at age 2; and Dad, after the war [WWII] took me along on many rabbit'squirrel/quail hunts as a toddler].  Early years I used a .22 for squirrel and rabbits and a scatter gun for birds.  So, when I took up muzzleloading in earnest some 40 years ago my 1st choice was a small game caliber [.36 then].  But, always impressed by what the little .22 can do and the .32 is the closest BP equivalent-- I switched to a .32 Tenn rifle for squirrels and rabbits.  I had traded off my .36 for a deer rifle anyway.  When after larger varmints I pick from my litter of .45 through .54 rifles or my 20 gauge smoothie.  Ramblings in  the woods and fields have always thrilled me more than sitting in some blind or treestand.  Small game hunting is still my favorite outdoor sport...

Have you read  on the discussions about the .25 cal ML ?

[Mike R]

been a small game hunter all my life [since Granddad took me quail hunting with him at age 2; and Dad, after the war [WWII] took me along on many rabbit'squirrel/quail hunts as a toddler].  Early years I used a .22 for squirrel and rabbits and a scatter gun for birds.  So, when I took up muzzleloading in earnest some 40 years ago my 1st choice was a small game caliber [.36 then].  But, always impressed by what the little .22 can do and the .32 is the closest BP equivalent-- I switched to a .32 Tenn rifle for squirrels and rabbits.  I had traded off my .36 for a deer rifle anyway.  When after larger varmints I pick from my litter of .45 through .54 rifles or my 20 gauge smoothie.  Ramblings in  the woods and fields have always thrilled me more than sitting in some blind or treestand.  Small game hunting is still my favorite outdoor sport...

Have you read  on the discussions about the .25 cal ML ?

Yes, but the .32 is a pretty small ball as it is--yet it weighs about the same as a .22 LR slug and can be delivered with ballistics ranging from that of the .22CB to that of the .22Mag.  And it can be used with a wood rod for loading--I am sceptical about the smaller bores but each to his own!

[Daryl]

I like my Tenn. .32 flinter - Dave Rase has a .28 flinter & used it at the Hefley Creek Rondy squirrel rifle shoot a few years back - beautiful fine little rifle - inspired Taylor to get a walnut stock blank and .25 barrel to build - SOME day.

[blunderbuss]

My little .25 had a wooden rod when I bought it but I constantly had problems with it so I cut down a 1/4 brass rod and turned a jag on the rod. I cut the barrel down too it was 40'' I figured that was just to long for a .25 so I bobbed it at 30" made it real handy. It sounds like a .22 when it shoots. It's a Tenn.Poor boy style It's hand made but I don't know who made it . Has iron furnature except for a silver star on the cheek piece Also looks like it may have been a .32 at one time and been sleeved

[northmn]

I use a wooden rod in my 25.  I just have to sand down a dowel rod a bit and it takes a commercial 1/4 inch tip.  Most 25's are a 26.  I really don't argue much if someone has a preference for a big bore like a 32   Some of it depends also on what one thinks they may get a chance at.  I used to hunt jackrabbits in western MN that turn white in the winter, they were a very large rabbit and would run a ways if hit with a 22 LR through the ribs.  I was amazed when I hit one one time at long range with the 222 and it ran about 80 steps from the blood spray in the snow.  No rib cage left on the far side.  With a 25 I would have to head shoot one and expect a 32 would be marginal.  Even smaller critters can be tough.  Reason we body shot them is that they tended to be a long range game animal at 200 yards +or- although I did get a few close shots.  Many of us have a varmint we also would like to take a poke at if encountered while hunting with a rifle.  Mine are coyotes.  A 32 would admittedly be more effective unless I could get a good head shot.  Of course with a smooth bore unless very close all I would do is speed one up. 

DP

[blunderbuss]

We have big Jacks down here in Texas I've eaten a couple not my best desired, kinda chewy. A friend of mine was making fun of my ML then he shot a white tail with a 25-06 and we had to track him 200 yards through the whitebrush and mesquite. He had a hole in him you could throw a cat through some how he just didn't die. I don't ever remember shooting a squirrel and having a problem the .25 takes them right out. I've shot large coons with it and had no problem the ball doesn't exit but down they come.

[FL-Flintlock]

We have big Jacks down here in Texas I've eaten a couple not my best desired, kinda chewy. A friend of mine was making fun of my ML then he shot a white tail with a 25-06 and we had to track him 200 yards through the whitebrush and mesquite. He had a hole in him you could throw a cat through some how he just didn't die. I don't ever remember shooting a squirrel and having a problem the .25 takes them right out. I've shot large coons with it and had no problem the ball doesn't exit but down they come.

On them Jack's, dip in vinegar then let stand an hour before cooking then braze & slow cook with low-end moderate heat or brown then cover & low-temp steam.

Saw a WT take three 175gr through the boiler room from a 7mm Rem Mag and still make 400yds.  Same will be seen when a high-velocity .22LR passes through a coon with seemingly no effect yet a low-velocity CB long will make ‘em DRT.with the same shot placement.  Of course there some to be said about projo design too but it ain’t all about speed or placement, blow the boiler apart with .300 Win Mag and that bugger will still go just as far as one with a hole in it from a .58 PRB or .45-70

To the feller who thinks a load of birdshot is good for a hog ... think again!  I whacked one at 15’ with a 7/8oz slug and it flattened out on the shoulder plate doing nothing more than causing a limp and making that old boy intent on killing me.  There’s been plenty of humans who have taken loads of birdshot at very close range and live.  It’s pretty impressive against stuff like a wood door but not very impressive on penetrating to the vitals.  You want stopping power in a smoothie, learn how to load PRB’s cast from WW alloy.

[blunderbuss]

I'll try that on the Jacks FL agreed no bird shot on pigs prefer ball .715 out of my double . I shot a 300 lb er with my .577 Jaeger 70 gr ffg it went right through a lung shot ,the heard went then in front of the stand and I got another with my Colt SA .45 I was glad I was in a stand that day. An old truck cab on legs

[northmn]

When I mentioned the use of birdshot as a deterrent I was talking about very close range as in feet and likely a head shot.  I would not hunt a larger animal with birdshot, although I know of a couple of instances where deer were taken with it, but with head shots.  I am more in the belief like Brown Bear, that you may have to use what is in hand.  I was talking about 10 feet or so.  It may or may not work, but one might be lucky to get a shot off with the gun in hand and a pistol may not be deployable nor are most that effective in a bad situation. I would not purposly hunt any large animal with birdshot. I think we are on a different wave length here.
The jack rabbits I shot were fairly tasty when roasted and varied depending on the age of the rabbit. They rosated with dressing quite well.  Problem was that they were large enough so that they made more than meal.  I shot a couple of pheasants, one that was 39" from tail tip to beak and had a much larger body than the usual spring chicks we shoot.  The spurs were about the sharpest, nastiest things I ever saw and really long.  My bird dog yelped on the one and carried it in by the head.  While I never tried the proverbial boiled owl I think I may have an idea about what they taste like.


DP

[blunderbuss]

I see what you mean Dpeck if that's all you have take your best shot

[whitebear]

I am glad to see this thread on small game hunting.  My father started my brother and I out hunting squirrels and walking hedgerows shooting rabbits and quail.  Now here in central Georgia you would think that it is illegal to shoot anything but deer.  You hardly ever here about any one hunting small game.

Shooting a deer with one of the suppository cannons and having the bullet go through and out the other side makes the bullet loose a lot of the terminal ballistics when it exits the animal.  I know that it is not possible but if you could have the bullet go through the boiler room and stop just under the skin on the off side then all the energy is contained in the animal and will make for a quicker kill.  At least this is what the "Experts" say.

[blunderbuss]

I saw a ball do that once  a friend of mind shot a deer with a .54 Harper's  Ferry flint pistol  I don't know how much powder he had in it, it couldn't have been much maybe 40 gr 3 f just stuck out like a big pimple on the far side.
I don't hold with some of that ballistic stuff I think they do that with iron plates. I've shot deer with .58 RB and Minies and a few with .715 RB from a 12 ga some fall toward you some fall away some drop straight down and some run away and fall down 50 yards away. According to their ballistics all that foot pounds of energy should throw a 150 lb deer 50 yards at least.

[FL-Flintlock]

DP,

Only point I was trying to make is that if you expect to bump into porky, you’d best be packing something better than birshot or Fosters – as a last resort, whatever you got is better than nothing.  The advice I got many moons ago still holds true, “If you can’t outrun a deer, better to be able to climb like a monkey.”

There’s two different aspects of stopping something and they are 1- Making a kill shot and 2- Stopping ambulation.  When it comes to speed of kill, the only two things that count are the size of the permanent wound channel and where it’s placed.  It doesn’t matter if there’s pass-through or not except when the pass-through allows for faster bleed-out.  It’s always amusing to poke fun at the loudenboomer megamagnums but truth be known, it doesn’t matter if you poke a 1” diameter hole through the boiler with a .338 Lapua or a .50 PRB, if the critter is intent on making a 100yds before it drops, what it was hit with matters not.  When it comes to stopping ambulation, the only two concerns are 1- Does the projo have enough momentum to complete the task?  and  2- Is the projo going to destroy all the meat or not in a hunting situation?  There’s some scientific real world reliable data available on terminal ballistics, unfortunately the factual data gets overpowered by worthless sales hype and equally worthless gunshop myths.  It’s like the example I used of the high velocity .22LR vs. the low velocity .22 CB Long, despite the vast velocity difference, the terminal effectiveness on small critters is vastly improved simply because the low velocity bullet design is such that is creates a far superior permanent wound channel – granted said wound channel is far shallower because the lighter & slower bullet has less momentum.  I’ve never been one to be impressed by numbers on paper except for scores.  Take the ft/lbs and MV tables, throw them in your hat and you’ve got a hat with wasted paper in it.  The only thing one need be concerned with for hunting purposes are Shot Placement, Available Momentum & Permanent Wound Channel Diameter.  Doesn’t matter how fast or slow the projo is going when it gets there, what matters is if it hits the right spot, that it has enough momentum to make a wound channel of sufficient diameter. 

[blunderbuss]

That's why buck shot on deer drops em  quick I use 12 .34 cal 100gr ffg(if it's close) that's 12 balls hitting him at the same time his blood pressure has to go to 0 in a 1/2 second. 00 has enough penetration to get the job done. You have to judge the distance  They drop like a sack of rocks
 The other barrel has a .715 ball in case I need penetration on porky or I need a further shot.The right barrel is sighted in with a small sight on the rib That's good to 80 yards. That combo has worked well.

[stone knife]

The only black squirrel I have ever shot was with my Thompson Cherokee .32 cal. I knew he was in the area and waited half the day for him to show up, passed on a lot of greys that day.

[northmn]

Black squirrels are getting pretty common around my neck of the woods.  We have one feeding by the house (I do not shoot those) picking up leftovers dropping from wifes bird feeders.  I have run into them out in the brush, have not had a shot at one.  They are getting common enough so that even mounting one would not be much of a trophy. 

DP

[Daryl]

I preferred the larger grey squirrels when I was a kid, but passed up neither, or anyopportunity to go squirrel hunting.

My dad used to make up a 'head cheese' loaf out of left-over squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, whatever was in the fridge that Mom wouldn't touch.  The head cheese was all mine, for my school lunch sandwiches - tremendously tasty.  I've no idea what Taylor ate?  After a while the other kids stopped asking what "THAT" was. HA! What memories come back.

[BrownBear]

My dad used to make up a 'head cheese' loaf out of left-over squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, whatever was in the fridge that Mom wouldn't touch.  The head cheese was all mine, for my school lunch sandwiches - tremendously tasty.  I've no idea what Taylor ate?  After a while the other kids stopped asking what "THAT" was. HA! What memories come back.

Ah geez.  That settles it.  I've haven't managed breakfast yet, but you really set the belly to growling. 

I grew up on our homemade head cheese from hogs, but never thought of making it from game.  Of course, the head cheese always competed with tamales for those fat heads.    

Using hares and ptarmigan for tamales has proven their worth over the last 4 decades, so head cheese is definitely next in line.

In the meantime corn flakes will have to do.....   

[blunderbuss]

Black squirrels are getting pretty common around my neck of the woods.  We have one feeding by the house (I do not shoot those) picking up leftovers dropping from wifes bird feeders.  I have run into them out in the brush, have not had a shot at one.  They are getting common enough so that even mounting one would not be much of a trophy. 

DP

I've seen them where I hunt out side San Antonio TX some are black and brown mix. I heard they were tough but I've never tried one.

[stone knife]

Black squirrels are getting pretty common around my neck of the woods.  We have one feeding by the house (I do not shoot those) picking up leftovers dropping from wifes bird feeders.  I have run into them out in the brush, have not had a shot at one.  They are getting common enough so that even mounting one would not be much of a trophy. 

DP

I've seen them where I hunt out side San Antonio TX some are black and brown mix. I heard they were tough but I've never tried one.

They all eat

[northmn]

The blacks I see are a color variation of the grays, not a seperate species.  I have to hide some of my small game takes, especially squirrel in casseroles, mixed with other meat.  I make pheasant pot pie as the family does not like pheasant.  They do eat ruffed grouse, but do not like ducks.  My daughter one time would not eat tacos made from venison burger.  She could smell the venison.  She has outgrown that, now that her husband hunts.  Snowshoe rabbits, when I used to see them varied according to the age of the rabbit.  Some of the older ones were best left for fill in a beef stew.

DP

[blunderbuss]

The blacks I see are a color variation of the grays, not a seperate species.  I have to hide some of my small game takes, especially squirrel in casseroles, mixed with other meat.  I make pheasant pot pie as the family does not like pheasant.  They do eat ruffed grouse, but do not like ducks.  My daughter one time would not eat tacos made from venison burger.  She could smell the venison.  She has outgrown that, now that her husband hunts.  Snowshoe rabbits, when I used to see them varied according to the age of the rabbit.  Some of the older ones were best left for fill in a beef stew.

DP

My mom loved to play pranks so once my ex sister in law came over for lunch and mom (knowing she wouldn't eat venison) cooked venison, after the third helping my mom told her what it was.Phew! she said You know I don't like venison. A few weeks later the same sister in law came over only this time mom cooked beef again after three helpings mom told her it was venison and she said "I thought that tasted funny"