Pictures of sub-32 caliber rifles please!!!

[Skychief]

I have been reading here of the 25 caliber rifles some own.   How about a picture, or two, with a brief description and preferred loads of these rifles?    Much appreciated!

Skychief.

[northmn]

This is my 25 with a Rayl barrel and L&R Small Manton lock.  I cut the barrel back to 36 inches and ahve no regrets as it does handle well at that length.  Ramrods only cost about 20 cents that way also.  It does take a 1/4 inch tip but I still have to sand down the ramrods.  Notice it is a poor boy and has no buttplate or entry thimble.  The metal forend plate is due to ramrod drill drift.  Were I to build another one I would not make one that stark  and would make a Tennessee with a buttplate and patchbox.  Although I really could not bring myself to drill a grease hole in the butt stock.  It likes about 20 grains of Grafs 3f powder, which seems to foul less than GOEX and #3 buckshot.  It is pretty quick on squirrels but not so much as to tear them apart.  I consider it pretty much a hunting rifle so do not really regret making it fancier to any extent.  I place the butt on my foot when loading in the field.

DP

[Kermit]

Click to see it bigger. Click that one and it gets bigger still.

I had Mark Wheland build this one. It's got a .25 cal Rayl barrel, 44" long, swamped. Small siler with brass plate, single trigger, brass mounted, curly maple. No nosecap or entry pipe. Started out to be a barn gun, but one thing let to another...

20 grains Goex 3f, #4 buckshot, .015 pillow ticking and spit.

[Skychief]

Great rifles guys!

How tight will they shoot at 25/50 yards off a good rest?

What is the common thought on a good across the flats diameter if a straight barrel is used in a 25 caliber?

Skychief.

[Ezra]

What is the common thought on a good across the flats diameter if a straight barrel is used in a 25 caliber?

Skychief.

My opinion is about 3/4". 


Ez

[Kermit]

3/4" is plenty in a straight barrel. Only a quarter inch is being removed, so you still have a wall thickness of 1/4". With plus/minus 20 grains of powder pushing a ball that's about the weight of a .22 short slug, that's plenty of barrel.

It once shot a 5 shot 25 yard offhand group that you could have covered with a Bess ball. Once. It was a good day.

[northmn]

Mine is a 3/4 straight barrel.  3/4 inch barrel and 1/4 ramrod.  One reason I think the drill bit came out. Very slim rifle.

DP

[Macon Due]

Man....... what a nice pair of rifles!!! Makes me want a small bore..........
Macon

[northmn]

Mine will generally put the first three shots in a quarter but start to throw them when it gets a little dirty. I sight in and use Bore Butter (probably Crisco when I use up the Bore Butter) for lube at this time because that is what I use out in the woods, were I to target shoot with it, I would use a liquid lube.  My biggest problem with checking groups is seeing the sights against the target.  My groups tend to be vertical and I admit to a visual sight problem.  To really shoot anymore I need a peep sight, although the express sight I use on the squirrel rifle does works pretty good.  I also use a pretty thick brass bead, which works better in the woods, but if there is a bit of sun also gives me a little problem.

DP

[Keb]

.20 cal. ash stock. Manton lock. Shoots BB size shot (.18). All mounts are forged by Salvo.

[Ezra]

.20 cal. ash stock. Manton lock. Shoots BB size shot (.18). All mounts are forged by Salvo.

Do tell.  Where can one buy a .20 black powder barrel?


Ez

[omark]

and you named it the "fly swatter", right??        mark

[T.C.Albert]

Im asking James Levy for particulars cause my memory is soo poor, but his friend down in Florida is making custom long gun barrels in a caliber small enough to shoot shot gun B/Bs (not sure of the ought size) ...making access to ammo a cinch...James has one made up into a beautiful mountain rifle...it seemed like just the ticket for small bore squirrel gunning...
TCA

[T*O*F]

Ezra,
Your gun just reminded me of a little tip that might be useful to some.
That sideplate can be easily fabbed from the top of a heavy, brass door key.

[Skychief]

I think I am getting another "itch"!

Keep the pics coming guys.....

[Kermit]

Yes! More! AND an answer to the source(s) for ML BB barrels. I've had an itch to build one to shoot .177 balls too. What do you think? About a 1/2" straight octagon ought to do it, right?

[smokinbuck]

Kermit,
I've got a .22 cal full stock rifle, approximatley 1/3 scale, that we built for my grandson when he was 3-4. Used a piece of cherry for the stock and an Italian pistol lock. The barrel came off an old Marlin rifle that was draw filed to remove all the stampings. Made a trigger guard, trigger and pipes. Shoots pretty good with .22 caliber pellets and about 4-5 grains of 3F.
Mark

[Skychief]

Have any of you guys found that you are just as satisfied using a 32 caliber for whatever you use the smaller calibers for (hunting, targets, etc)?

Along the same lines, have any of you found that the smaller calibers are much more difficult to handle (loading, cleaning, fouling issues, load development, accuracy) in comparison to the 32 caliber?

Thanks for sharing your experience, Skychief.

[Don Getz]

Personally, I never cared to build a gun with a 3/4" straight barrel, the gun almost ends up in the "toy" category.  Not to
be PC, which doesn't really bother me, but it would be an extremely rare find for a 19th century gun with a barrel this small.   They kind of remind me of a childs gun with a long pull................Don

[Dennis Glazener]

Have any of you guys found that you are just as satisfied using a 32 caliber for whatever you use the smaller calibers for (hunting, targets, etc)?

Along the same lines, have any of you found that the smaller calibers are much more difficult to handle (loading, cleaning, fouling issues, load development, accuracy) in comparison to the 32 caliber?

Thanks for sharing your experience, Skychief.

Some love them but I didn't like the 30 caliber Bill Large barrel rifle that I used to own. I loved to shoot it but the loading and cleaning was a pain! I hated fooling with it. It was called a 30 caliber but was probably a true .29 caliber and the ram rod had to be too small to suit me. Maybe if I had gotten a custom steel rod I would have liked it better but my 32 cal is as small as I want to go and to be honest I believe I like a 36 better. My hands/fingers are just too clumsy for the smaller bores. But like I said, once it was loaded I really enjoyed shooting it until it came time to clean it.
Dennis

[northmn]

Personally, I never cared to build a gun with a 3/4" straight barrel, the gun almost ends up in the "toy" category.  Not to be PC, which doesn't really bother me, but it would be an extremely rare find for a 19th century gun with a barrel this small.   They kind of remind me of a childs gun with a long pull................Don

Do not necessarily disagree as the 3/4 inch barrel rifle I built had to be made a little thicker than I could have.  being a Tennessee I used DST's and as it was a small bore a 1/4 inch ramrod.  It had to be made thicker than needed just to fit the lock and triggers and I used a small lock.  But at 25 caliber a 3/4 inch barrel is surprisingly heavy, which is one reason I cut it back to 36 inches.  I also had to do a lot of filing on the triggerguard to make it fit to proportion.   As it is a shooter and hunting rifle I let the PC kind of slide.  I do not know how many sub small bores were made originally anyway.  I know a few "pea" rifles were made.
My last contact with Scott Picket was at Scott.Picket@comcast.net.  he was the friend of Levy's that made my 33 caliber fast twist barrel.  As to the question of the 32's vs the smaller ones.  I bought a faster twist 33 because I felt it would serve the same purposes.  They all can be made to shoot buckshot.  While they are fun to take to a Rondy, you will do better with a larger bore in the long run.  I shot a few squirrels with a 32 and liked it for that purpose.  At one time the 36 was THE squirrel rifle.  My 40 loaded lighter really does not tear them up all that bad.  The 25 is fun and those that have them seem to like them.  They have their place, which is mostly a squirrel rifle or cottontail rabbit gun.  were I to want something for a little bigger critters like woodchucks, fox or coyote, I might consider a 32.

DP

[Ezra]

Well, I guess a guy could always just go with a 1" straight barrel to avoid the too small look.  .25 cal, 1" straight, yeah it would work...


Ez

[SPG]

Gentlemen,

Alan Hoeweler and I just returned from the Denver Gun Show and on the way back stopped to shoot a few gophers and  prairie dogs in the Platte River canyon. Alan was using a .25 flinter and I had a .32 Vincent. Prairie dogs were hard to kill with the .25 beyond 25 yards, picket pins could be killed cleanly a little further out. The .32 nailed them...my longest shot was 82 steps and the 'dog never moved. We didn't find any rock chucks, but last year on the same trip I got several out to 70 yards and the .32 killed them clean...much better than when using a .22 rimfire with hollowpoints.

None of the prairie dogs that Alan hit showed exit wounds...the .32 would shoot clean through. Alan's powder charge was 25 grains of 3Fg Swiss and I was using 35 grains of 3Fg Swiss in the Vincent. The .25 works to about 40 yards maximum for 'dogs...beyond that, it is iffy.

Steve 

[Keb]

Here's a nice little .30 cal. flintlock by Salvo.
It has a 36 1/2" length swamped rifled barrel 7/8" at breech, 5/8" waist & 11/16" at muzzle.
The patch box is silver, brass & copper & RR Pipes are brass & silver made by Salvo.
The lock & triggers are also hand made by Salvo.
This gun has never been fired. The touch hole isn't even drilled yet.

[northmn]

Keb, that is truly a nice little small game getter.
SPG your experiences kind of support my feelings about my little 25 and its uses.  These smaller bores are best used as a dedicated squirrel/cottontail  type rifle.  The little 23 grain ball just plain loses velocity too quickly to be all that great at longer distances. In a centerfire that size bullet is used out of a 17 and they have not taken the world by storm for long range work.  Due to availability and price, I picked up a nice little Swamped 40 cal barrel that will go into a rifle once I get caught up on current projects.  For generalized small game hunting like you mention, or for varmint and small game, a 36 or 40 is really not all that bad.  The powder charges you mentioned for the 25 and 32, 25 grains and 35 grains, are common and the 35 grains is a common load in a 36 and works well for squirrel in a 40.  About 40 cal on down make for very economical shooting. Even buying swaged round ball is not going to break you and they are almost cheap enough so that casting is of questionable worth.  A 40 will stand up to 100 yard varminting.  I have had no experience with a 36, which is unusual for me, but see its worth.  I shot 32's for some time and rebarreled one rifle to a 40 as they did not work that well in competition.  I am talking about the bigger picture.  On a good day a 32 will make bigger bore shooters grumble, but during the whole season they will not perform as well.  I like the small bores but experience has shown me their place.

DP