Author Topic: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt  (Read 7053 times)

Offline bgf

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SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« on: May 17, 2011, 02:52:13 AM »
I'm shy about putting this up here, but I see people seem to like these and I love looking at other people's work, so I will.  This project consumed me all winter.  Most of the hardware was made in my dining room or other inappropriate places at odd times, except the ramrod tip, screws, a kicker spring, and the pins.  The barrel is a .50 cal. 15/16" GM 42" (I like the weight); lock is slightly (cosmetically) modified Durs Egg; triggers are slightly(cosmetically) modified L&R 1700.  Stock was (originally) a semi-fancy Lancaster precarve (at least no inlets) with a tendency to warp and change dimensions almost daily.  The inspiration was a particular rifle, but I tried not to copy it in all particulars, and instead attempted to capture the style of what I liked about it.






I got a lot of help from people here with this and I would like to thank them (if I haven't already personally), but I don't want to implicate them in any errors or shortcomings, which are all mine. 

Offline heinz

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 03:06:13 AM »
Burton, Nice looking rifle, I like the way you have handled the metal work.  I also like the four thimbles, I think it makes a longer looking gun.  The patch box is great.
Heinz.  
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 01:08:47 PM by heinz »
kind regards, heinz

Offline A.Merrill

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 10:49:05 AM »
    Patch box looks great. You did a nice job, fine gun    AL
Alan K. Merrill

LehighBrad

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 12:15:04 PM »
Reminds me of the House brothers and their "Woodbury" school of rifle building. Very nice. Then again, I'm a sucker for the iron mounted rifles. ;)

WV_Mountaineer

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 02:56:31 PM »
Very nice.  How did you join the top of the butt plate to the back?  I am trying to make that joint on one now and giving me fits.

Thanks,
Steve

Offline bgf

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 04:58:16 PM »
Thanks, guys.  I've always liked brass, but I fell in love with the iron-mounted one that inspired me (from a Wallace Gusler article in Muzzleblasts from September 2004), and thought I should give iron a try.  The finish came out OK, but I wish I had charcoal blued (as the original); just couldn't work up the nerve to do it on the barrel and wanted stuff to match.

The patchbox was fun.  I was intending to do nine knuckles on the hinge, but I could only do seven in this lifetime; I used the external hinge to allow me to stop remaking finials when the hinge part was botched, but I thought it ended up adding a little texture.    The original patch box had different finial, but was in the "geometric" fashion, so I wanted to try my own combination of elements -- different but the same.  It did turn out to resemble some others from the same area which is a good sign I think, but it wasn't intentional at the time, I just stopped cutting when I thought it looked good and had the proportions I wanted.  I tried the same thing with the PB sidepanels, but couldn't really top the original.  I never tried a 4 piece PB before, but I hardly ever see them done in iron these days, so I wanted to follow my original and be different at the same time.

Any resemblance to House brothers (even a distant likeness is flattering) is likely due to a similar taste in 1790-1810 originals SW Va. and E. Tn. iron mounted rifles.  I have to attend elementary school before I can even apply to a school like Woodbury :).

Heinz,
Thanks for noticing the 4 RR pipes -- I just wish I had seen the trick you used on your blog rifle earlier.

Steve,
The buttplate and comb pieces are not joined, as that is the way the original I was following was put together.  It has two screws in the buttplate and the comb piece is inlet into the wood (and screwed down).   

Offline G-Man

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 05:29:34 PM »
Burton - I know we have talked about the gun already but I will say again, the rifle came out super.  The patchbox and triggerguard I especially like.  

There is a group of related original rifles, that Wallace did an article on, the "Stepped Toe Group" that spans about a 60-year timeframe and the geographic region from the Shenandoah Valley south and west into Middle Tennessee. It includes the Brass Barreled Rifle, the Honakers, Jacob Young, "GB" (whoever he was) and others.  Both iron and brass mounted guns.  The "Woodbury" style is firmly rooted in this this group of original rifles - when you look at them you see much of the inspiration for Hershel's work,  although he evolved it into his own unique contemporary style.  One great iron mounted rifle, marked simply "GB" was also featured by Wallace in its own article and I know Burton was very influenced by that great piece, but also came up with his own twists on the hardware and box.  Nice work!

Heinz's nice rifle was also shown on the blog a few weeks ago and is a concept of what might have come out of the same group of gunsmiths in that region about 30 years earlier than Burton's.  The thimble trick that Burton referred to is a progression in the lengths of the thimbles moving forward out toward the muzzle - it provides a neat visual "stretching" effect to the forend, and was borrowed from an original Honaker stepped toe gun that Wallace has been kind enough to share with us at many shows.  

PS - some guys are occaionally asking about pre-carves for southern rifles Burton's gun is a good example of the fun you can have with a pre-carve if you think outside the box - just because it says "Lancaster" on the pattern does not mean you have to use it for a Lancaster build....

Guy
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 05:37:41 PM by G-Man »

eagle24

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 05:50:02 PM »
Very nice!  I really like the trigger guard.

Offline bgf

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 06:41:53 PM »
Guy,
I really appreciate the kind words, and it makes it easy to give you the credit I wanted to but was afraid to drag you down through implication with my flaws (which are none your fault!).  It was thanks to your guidance that I got my first sight of the "GB" iron mounted rifle in Gusler's "Step toe" article that started this project and that helped make the "GB" iron one of my favorite rifles of all.  I know we both wish we knew who "GB" (and even that's a guess) was, because he built one of the most elegant and yet assertive (for lack of a better word) rifles the world has ever seen.  I did not feel worthy or able to try to copy it, but it is more of an homage to it and others of its kind, and I hope others will see something interesting in it and take a look at these great rifles also -- there is not a rifle in that group that doesn't have something captivating about it. 

GHall,
Thanks -- triggerguards are fun to make, especially when you decide you have to make another one to fit your previous inlet!

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 07:13:20 PM »
Oh, that rifle is fine!!! I love the iron mounted Southern guns like this!!! I really admire your work and creativity!!
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Offline Dan Herda

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
Love your rifle. Could we see a shot of the nose cap and entry pipe areas.?

Meteorman

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 10:41:05 PM »
she's a beauty.
love the metal work
Buttplate and patchbox are really attractive - look like they were born to be together.
/mm

Offline bgf

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 11:51:43 PM »
rdj_runr,
Thanks, this is the best I've got. 



The details on the fore end were a little sketchy, so I did what I could imagine and looked at as many similar rifles as I could find, esp. in the library.

Regarding your PM question (as you suggested, I'll post here in case anyone else is interested), the LOP is 13.75" from the front trigger, drop is ~3", no cast-off, and butt-width is a bit over 1 5/8".  These should be close; the actual stock is this one:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=153&styleId=620&partNum=STK-LA 
It works pretty well, considering, but the comb should really be a little longer and the wrist a little shorter for stylistic fidelity.  It fits me well, though, so not too unhappy. 


MM,
Thanks, esp. having seen the good work you do.

Offline David R. Pennington

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 12:10:41 AM »
Thats what you did with that box of parts you had at Boonesborough huh? Well thats a lot better way to spend your winter than in front of the TV. Great job! Really a good looking rifle.
David P.
VITA BREVIS- ARS LONGA

Offline Kevin Houlihan

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 12:33:15 AM »
Great job!  I agree that it does somewhat resemble a House style rifle.  I love the finish on the metal work.  Could you describe how it was done..or is it a secret ;) ?
Kevin

Offline bgf

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 01:51:16 AM »
Kevin,
It's not a secret, but it is a little arcane.  Basically it is Van's Instant rubbed back with green scrub pad, but I added a few steps that seemed to make a difference in the texture and possibly the durability.  I had a lot of fun with it, so this is based on what I can recall.  First, everything was sanded to 120, then soaked in white vinegar for half an hour; at the least this degreases a part thoroughly, and I think it may begin to etch the surface a little.  Then boil in a weak vinegar and water (or just water) mixture; that gets the part warmed up.  Take them out one at a time (they will dry pretty much immediately) and then while they are still hot either submerge in bluing or keep them wet with it until they turn pitch black (like flat black paint).  Let dry for a while, even overnight (they might even rust a little), then boil for 10 minutes in water.  Again, take them out one at a time and rub them back to the color you want with the green pad and some motor oil -- it actually takes some "elbow grease" :).  I would be skeptical myself about the extra steps, but the barrel did not get the boilings or soaking, and it has a different texture, and not quite as tough.  I did the (visible parts of the) lock the same as the other parts, except I did not leave it in vinegar long and soaked it in a very dilute mixture of Van's and water and oiled it as soon as I took it out of the final boil (mainly to neutralize the bluing solution?), so that it never got as dark as I took the other parts.  

David,
Yes, those are the same parts or the mark II version in a couple of cases (TG may have been re-worked).  If I had known what it was going to be like at Boonesborough (useful and nice people all around), I would have brought the stock, barrel and lock also.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 02:03:05 AM by bgf »

Offline Glenn

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 03:33:51 AM »
Beautiful weapon.  Very nice job indeed.   ;D
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: SW Va. Rifle, an apprentice's attempt
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 02:54:57 AM »
I think it looks great
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning