Presenting our work here- what do we want?

[rich pierce]

One of the great pleasures in this hobby is seeing other folks' work.  There's nothing like going to a show like the CLA or Dixon's Fair or many others and see the artists and their work and getting to actually handle the stuff.  Also that's where I like to go to get a critique of a new build by taking it to at least 3 builders whose work I admire. It's a lot easier for folks to give a good critique of a rifle or horn or whatever when they see it, and you, in person.  I learned a lot from Chuck Dixon in the early years.  He was really good at pointing out the great things about a new rifle I'd built. Then he'd ask me what I was trying to accomplish HERE. He'd pay great attention to my response.  He was seeing how much I really wanted input instead of "great job!"  I know other "graybeards" who have the same approach.  Gary Brumfield (Flintriflesmith) comes to mind, in that he can give a critique where a fella can learn what could be done better, but not get discouraged. There are plenty more; I can't mention everyone here.

It's a two way street when we present our stuff for critique, whether here or at a show.  There are opportunities for learning and teaching, for correcting, and also significant chances that someone will get discouraged or even angry and defensive.  Tricky business.  A lot depends on the motives of the person presenting their work for critique.  What do we actually want from the critique or comments?  In some cases we want recognition, even accolades.  A ribbon or more at Dixon's, or some "wow, terrific job!" comments here can certainly make a builder feel good.  Finding out that the rifle is finished, but if we'd have done this or that, it would have been better, is not such a good feeling.

Long intro but now I'll ask questions.  Please respond!

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?

2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?

3) When you respond to someone's new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement?

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?

6) It ain't broke, why change anything?

[smylee grouch]

This should be a thought provoking question and generate some varied replies. I personaly would present any of my work here for any comments out there, as sone as I can figure out how to post pictures. Yes I know that there is help on this site but as of now I still cant get the job done but wont give up so hope to be able to in the future.

[Rolf]

1. I've presented all my gun and gun-related work here(3 pistols+ 1 powderhorn), often during the building process and have gotten a lot of valuable advice. It's a great way to learn!!!

2.I know how to work silver and have answered questions in that area. On other topics I deferr to the wiser heads.

3. That depends if I get the impression the person really wants advice and if I know the subject. I would like to point out the best way to learn is to post questions during the building process. If you don't know how to do something, do a test run and ask for advice.

4. I'd be very disappointed if the "pros" stopped posting their work. It gives us amateurs something to learn from and strive for.

5. Post the building process, not just the finished work.

6. I 'm happy with the forum.

Best regards
Rolf

[eagle24]

I'll play (and BTW Rich, I like the thread you started)

1.  I posted my first rifle and have posted several bags I have made.  I've got thick skin and my intent is to learn and get better, so I would REALLY APPRECIATE constructive criticism.  I want folks to point out errors and things they don't like in my work.  A pat on the back is nice once and awhile, but I really want my mistakes and short comings pointed out.  Mostly, I felt I got pats on the back and accolades regarding the work I posted, knowing all the while that there was much room for improvement.  I did have a few folks send me PM's with some constructive criticizm that I appreciated, but had they just said it in the thread, others could also benefit.

2.  For the most part, I feel that I am not someone who should critique the work of others.  I may answer a simple question from a beginner, but only if I am confident in my answer.  There are always others here who know far more and I feel its better to let them do the talking.  I do watch and listen for their responses though.

3.  I may post an encouraging reply, but again I feel like there are others who can better point out areas of improvement.

4.  I would like to see a forum for presenting work for critique, but I still think you will have some who are tentative about posting critical (constructive) comments on an open forum.

5.  I'm going to try and encourage more constructive criticism of my work in the future when I post a bag or rifle.  It really does help to have some input from perspectives other than your own.

6.  It really isn't broke. This is a great forum with a wealth of talented artisans and I have learned a great deal here.  

[Meteorman]

This is a great line of questioning -- I'll gladly give my 3 cents.

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?

I hope to present all my finished work here.... of course I don't finish 'em too "frequently"! 
Maybe 2 rifles a year at my current rate.
I am definetly intimidated by the work here, if by intimidated we mean reluctant to directly or indirectly suggest that my work should or could be compared to some of the great stuff on here.

2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?

Both.  I think I can offer helpful critiques in some areas, but my relative newness to this craft probably compromises the credibility of my comments.  That's normal I think and hopefully will improve over time.

3) When you respond to someone's new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement?

mostly encourage at this point.  but not to the level of insincerity.
I think the really new folks (1st- and 2nd-time builders) need and want encouragement, as many are wondering whether or not they should stay in the game at all.   If you're still in it after 4 or 5 guns, it seems you've decided (for whatever reasons) to stick with it, and at that point I think more tough love is sought and better appreciated when received.  At least that's where I'm at. 
Looking back 3 years, if I'd a' got blasted out of the water on my very first build (which certainly deserved being blasted), I really don't know if I woulda stuck with it... (yeah, probably would have ) 
Of course, nobody wants to be patronized either.  Heck, people are all different, I can just say where my head was at.  Right now, the more critical reviews I get, the better for me.

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)

I'm sure some would feel more confident about posting in such a forum.
Personally, I like the current arrangment just fine.
The opportunity for PMs, and non-public critiques, is a great feature, and of course none of us know how much it is used for other folks...  but if someone is so sensitive to  criticism that the possibility of a critical private message inhibits them from showing their work, then an internet forum may not be the venue for them in the first place.

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?

I'm with Rolf - I'd love to see more "build along" posts, similar to okieboys chunk gun.  The photos and dialog that go with them are tremendously instructional to newer and probably even intermediate builders.  I'd enjoy posting build-alongs myself - for instance with my current build - but I have this little voice telling me that the pros view comprehensive build-alongs as mundane and a waste of everyone's time... 
(I guess in that sense I HAVE been intimidated about posting everything I would like to.)

6) It ain't broke, why change anything?

It ain't broke IMHO.  But a community can and should always look for ways to improve - this thread does that.  thanks Rich !

/mike millard

[Jim Kibler]

I'm not sure what to think.  It seems there are so many opportunities today for those who have the passion and desire.  One certainty is that the people who come together at this site are very diverse in terms of what this stuff means to them.  You can put every opportunity in front of someone, but in the end I think it comes down to the individual.

[flintriflesmith]

Although I really appreciate Rich mentioning that I have occasionally handled commenting on someones work in a constructive manner, I can tell you that it is one of the absolutely hardest things to do in person and even harder from looking at pictures on the web. Critiquing work is much like looking a baby pictures  .
In a class room where I am the "instructor" or at the CW Gunshop when I had a crew of helpers and apprentices it was easy. Not that folks always want to hear the critique but because the dynamics of the relationship are clear(er).
When I see work posted on this board and read three or four "Great work!" comments I just shut up---even if there are a couple of small things that would have moved the rifle from good to very good, etc.
If the poster asked a specific question like "What could I do to make the carving flow better?" or "What about the width of the lock panels?" It tells me they are seriously looking at their own work and I'm much more likely to put on my "greybeard hat" and respond.

Gary

[eagle24]

Although I really appreciate Rich mentioning that I have occasionally handled commenting on someones work in a constructive manner, I can tell you that it is one of the absolutely hardest things to do in person and even harder from looking at pictures on the web. Critiquing work is much like looking a baby pictures  .

Very good point.  It's also very easy to be misunderstood (or taken the wrong way) on a forum.  I've had it happen to me and in retrospect, after going back and reading my post or reply, I could see how it happened.  I think this is part of the reason many people are hesitant to offer sincere constructive criticizm.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I am nearing completion on the first rifle I have built since being a member of the forum.
So as soon as it is complete and I take some photos and figure how to upload them, I will definetly do so for all to critique. Hopefully everything looks good.

[Long Ears]

I also would like to play here. This is a great thread.

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?
    
I am new to this hobby and have never even seen an original longrifle until last summer at Dixon's. The first contemporary one I saw I had to have one. I have built 7 long guns now and have never posted any pictures. The main reason I have not is I have a lot to learn about correct design. I read this forum several times a day to see how things are to look and feel. I have purchased several books and videos that have been suggested here. The average non builder think I do fantastic work but like me they do not know what is truly correct. I built my fist from scratch and I am getting there but still need to remove more wood. I see that as being a very common issue with a newby. So yes, I feel my work is not yet worthy but I am getting there slowly.

2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?

I do not feel I have enough experience to offer much help but learn from those that do. Having the "chops" has never been a problem for me. Just the opposite sometimes!

3) When you respond to someones new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement?

I rarely respond due to lack of experience.

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)

No way, I want to play with the best! Just as soon as I feel I somewhat satisfy myself I will step up to the plate. I have yet to build one that I have hid in the closet but they are still not correct. I drool over the craftmanship of the pros that show us their work. It sets the bar high but what a goal!

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?

The only thing that bothers me is when some of the pros disagree on how to do a certain task and start to argue over the best way. As we all know there is more than one way to skin a cat. I want to hear them all. Hopefully one of the processes will work for me. Please keep giving your suggestions and processes. This is a fantastic medium to learn from. SOMETIMES, I wish I lived in PA!

6) It ain't broke, why change anything?

CORRECT! But thanks for asking. Keep up the good work!

Bob Smith

[LehighBrad]

I agree with Micah......I' m only 1/4 way through my second rifle build. And my first lehigh style rifle. (the first was a southern style squirrel rifle) Once I'm done with it....hopefully by the end of summer....I'm looking forward to posting pics of it on this forum and hoping for loads of constructive advice and an honest critique of the overall rifle. Any pointers I get can only help me become better.....and don't we all want that??

[James Rogers]

Critiquing work is much like looking a baby pictures

Gary, that is as true as it is funny. I usually like to get my critiques in person and I have had to learn who to ask and how to ask it to get educational and correct critique.
There are many who just want a pat on the back and then there are many who really don't know what they are critiquing either.

Thinking about this a little more there just may be one or two guys on here who have told a proud mother "That is the ugliest baby I have ever seen in my life"!  

[Ky-Flinter]

Great post Rich.

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?

I've posted the 3 rifles I've completed so far.  My first rifle was built before Al Gore invented the internet, but during the building of the next ones (and the current one) I have posted many questions and received tremendous help, for which I am most grateful.

2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?

I will sometimes offer constructive criticism if I am really sure about the topic, but most times I tend to wait (and hope) that those with more experience will respond.

3) When you respond to someone's new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement?

See my reply to question 2.  I think how one replies to a new work post depends on whether the builder asks for critique of his work or is just posting to say "Look what I built!" I think it's detrimental to lavish praise on mediocre work.  But I also think it is important to encourage while providing criticism.

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)

Not really.  I think it's great right where it is, in Gun Building.  But I do wish the Pros (and the Master amateur's for that matter) would post more of their finished work, it seems to have diminished lately.  I think it gives we apprentices more to aspire to.

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?

When someone posts their work, they should make it clear if they desire constructive criticism.  And I hope that the "greybeards" will continue to freely share their techniques and wisdom.  It is greatly appreciated.

6) It ain't broke, why change anything?

I agree, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  This is THE greatest community on the web.  And a @!*% sight better than most anywhere else.

-Ron

[b bogart]

I am very much a neophyte builder, and am nearing final shaping etc on my second from blank rifle. BEFORE I finish it I would like to post pictures and recieve feedback, critiques etc, I am not much of a compliment seeking type, but would rather have a tough grading curve applied. If I do well fine and good but, unless I have shortcomings or just plain incorrect work pointed out and/or given suggested remedies I'd just remain ignorant.

I am not qualified to critique other's work. So I don't. I do read and process the feedback replies.

No seperate forum for me. I don't care that my work isn't up to par with the rest of you fellas! I like to compare the whole spectrum of builders. If I have to be seen as guy who needs alot of improvement so be it!

I like the way things are here. There are times that I feel like I'm wasting bandwidth with whatever I do, but I'm not intimidated by the "Pros".  

In my case if those that offer advice feel kind of tentative about a hard hitting review, just pm me. I have thick skin (think Rhino) but I know some do  not want to be percieved as being mean spirited.  
Thanks for this thread Rich!!Very thought provoking.

[Ky-Flinter]

.......  When I see work posted on this board and read three or four "Great work!" comments I just shut up---even if there are a couple of small things that would have moved the rifle from good to very good, etc.

Gary, if it is my work I hope you will overlook your rule and share your expertise!

If the poster asked a specific question like "What could I do to make the carving flow better?" or "What about the width of the lock panels?" It tells me they are seriously looking at their own work and I'm much more likely to put on my "greybeard hat" and respond.

Please keep in mind that we apprentices may not know specifically what question to ask, but when shown or told what would make an improvement, the proverbial light bulb comes on for us.

Thank you for your efforts here and on your great website.

-Ron

[smart dog]

Hi Rich,
1.  I present my work frequently although I don't produce a lot and although I am awed by and admire the work of others, I am not intimidated one tiny bit showing my own work.

2.  I believe that I can contribute significantly to this forum within the constraints of my skills and knowledge.

3.  I always strive to encourage folks but also to educate them if I have something to contribute.  I am a teacher at heart, which also means that I am a professional learner.

4.  What's a pro?  I don't think there is any reason to do this.  We have a good informal gathering of talent and ideas, and I think they are well used within the structure of the current forums. 

5 and 6.  I don't think anything needs fixing.  We do as well as the medium (photos and words) allow.  Certainly, handling a gun and talking in person with our colleagues is best but many of us are not able to do that regularly, and for us the forum is the next best thing. 

dave

[bgf]

It is intimidating, but that's because we love our babies, and our abilities do not always match our vision, or our vision or set of priorities is sometimes different from others as well.  I just posted one recently and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't want to share it with others and get their opinions and reactions (good or bad) despite its flaws (many of which I know, some of which were even intentional compromises of one sort or the other, and others I am likely not aware of).  Any reaction was (and still is) welcome as long as it is honest and respectfully presented.  If it's awkward, anything short of a death threat can be discussed via PM, with any resulting good being distilled into a post. 

In general, almost any comment can be useful one way or the other as at the very least it may lead to other constructive responses.  Whether I am entitled to or not, I often have an opinion on what somebody is doing -- I always have opinions about everything, but I always try to present it so that someone else more qualified or differently inclined can correct me or disagree with me without feeling bad.

The idea of step-by-step presentations of works in progress is nice, but may not be practical for everybody.  I don't see a need for a separate second-class amateur presentation forum, as long as we all treat one another the way we would like to be treated ourselves (hmmm.. that sounds like something I've heard somewhere before).

[heinz]

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?
No, it is too difficult to post pictures.  I just did a search for the tutorial on posting pictures and could not find it.  I do not trust sites like photobucket anyhow, they want too much information and it does not take much to discourage me from using them.  I post on three other gun related boards and they all have internal posting mechanisms.  This may be just my problem but that is my honest answer.  If I could find the instructions I would give it another try.

2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?  Sometimes I will answer.  However there is a level of frustration in saying something that is true and meant to be helpful and quickly having it belittled by a self appointed expert that does not recognize your name.

3) When you respond to someone's new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement?
I try to encourage, and if I see work is needed I will say something constructive if I can.  Often I will use the private email.

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)
It would be interesting.  How do you define a pro?

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?  I think discussions of postings on the Contemporary makers blog are interesting, but they seem to be pretty selective. The odd thing being that very few ever post comments on the blog itself.

6) It ain't broke, why change anything?  I don't think any radical changes are necessary.  I check it every day.  No problem with not reading stuff you find boring or discussions that have gone astray.  The menus in combination with the recent posts features work very well.  The Museum is a great resource, represents a lot of work and that crew deserves more recognition.

[joe d]

I joined this site last August, and have been reading it daily since then.  I've got "The Gunsmith of Grenville County",
"Recreating the American Longrifle", a couple of Jack Brooks' videos, and have re-read and re-watched all of them several times.

This coming fall (all going well) I will be starting build number one....(from a kit, most likely) and then I will be posting progress
with a definite aim to receiving constructive criticisms from any and all who care to comment.  As a new builder, I have no bank of knowledge regarding what is good or not, and will no doubt be at the "what the heck do I do now" stage numerous times.

A further good reason to solicit advice here is that I live in Montreal, Canada, where longrifles are extremely thin on the ground for seeing/handling the real thing.

So, I will be presenting my work

Not sure I have much to contribute yet... and have avoided commenting on others' work so far for that reason

Hopefully I'll receive constructive criticism where due,  though the occasional "that's nice" won't hurt my feelings

As ky-flinter mentioned, it sure would be nice to see more of the pro's work, as I find it encouraging to see the possibilities

As many have mentioned, it ain't broke, so don't fix it!

Joe

[flehto]

I do occassionally post a LR in the "for sale" forum and do appreciate the kind words but these kind words aren't critical for obvious reasons and really don't help much w/ improving my skills. Perhaps a forum for posting  new builds as Rich suggested would be an excellent "learning forum". I think excluding the "pros"  or the especially talented is a bad idea because these are the people that "lead the way" in both example and critique.
  Yes, I'm intimidated because of the talent  and knowledge of many on ALR and also because of my lack of viewing originals and don't think I'm  at all qualified to judge other's work and have refrained from doing so.
  Rich... thanks for your thoughts for a "new build forum" ...it would be a unique teaching aid not found elsewhere and would be a welcome addition to ALR. The "powers that be" should seriously consider adding a "new build forum"....Fred

[Tom Currie]

I think the ability to post one's work and for critique and suggestion's is a primary service that the members here can use. It has certainly helped my work.

I will offer a critique when I feel confident in my critique.

Personnally I think we as a group offer a lot of encouragement, which is good, but we could be more honest. Actually Don's already honest. Keep it up Don.   It's hard because in most cases we don't know the builder personnally so we tend to be on the encouraging side rather than pointing out areas that need work.

I think some of us are beginning more casual builders and some are more anal about what we are trying to do. I've been both. It's hard to know what level of critique any given builder is looking for.

[Curtis]

Rich,

I can only speak for myself, but as a beginning builder I post my building efforts in order to get constructive criticism, to learn technique, and to gain knowledge of architecture.  I don't need or want artificial praise, but encouragement is always nice, even if it comes with some "tough love".  Sometimes it may be difficult understanding what someone is trying to teach me but with luck and perseverance I will eventually get it.

Usually if I comment on some else's work it is in the form of praise, as I lack the experience for most critiquing.  I only give the praise when I feel moved to to so because of the work presented, not just to say something nice.

There is a lot of superb talent here and posting a beginner's work can be intimidating.  However, if one wants t learn from the best, one has to mix it up with the best and hope they take you seriously enough to help out.

That being said, I gotta mention I have learned a lot here.  And say thanks to those who have offered their knowledge, opinions and ideas.

And yes, the encouragement.

Curtis

[James Rogers]

1) Do you present your finished work here frequently or not?  If not, are you intimidated by some of the great work presented here and feel your stuff is perhaps not "worthy"?
I have presented my work here. I do not have enough under my belt for there to be any "frequency" yet. Although my work is not of the caliber of some of the guns shown here, I do not feel intimidated in the least. I have found that the more I learn in specific areas of study that some who I thought were knowledgeable really are not. I have seen critique information be completely wrong for the type of gun presented or just parroted information that is merely someone else's opinion and not fact. I generally now seek critique from a chosen group who I feel know what I am trying to accomplish. They know they don't have to hold back and can point out the bad and have the ability to transfer information so I can make corrections on the next one.   Some of the better builders will really need to know what you seek and it must suit their philosophy as well before they will open up with both barrels to cut your work down as well as be willing to share their knowledge so you can improve.



2) Do you feel like you can offer good constructive criticism here (in your area of expertise), or do you feel that you lack the "chops" to contribute to good critiques?
While I do not consider any knowledge I have to be in the expert category, I have spent some considerable amount of time in certain areas of study that I am willing to share when I feel fairly confident in my knowledge and delivery.

3) When you respond to someone's new work, do you strive to mostly encourage, or do you feel you'd be doing the person a better service by pointing out areas that need improvement? For novices displaying their work and really asking for critique, I have found myself sharing information I have learned thru a PM so as not to appear that I am doing anything more than freely giving that which was given to me. Sometimes I will post a leading question on the thread to feel the waters. Some really do not want critique.
I have found as a general rule that most of the better builders on this site remain silent if the work sucks or if they are unsure if the OP is really desiring critique.

4) Would you like to see a forum strictly for presenting work for critique, for helpful constructive criticism, and have it be a "no pros allowed" forum as far as submissions is concerned?  Pros would be encouraged to offer helpful evaluations, but would not submit their work in that forum.  Would that help folks feel more confident? (this is just an idea, not at all something about to happen)
It might me good to have a forum for critiques only but I would not prohibit the "pros" from posting their work for critique although I feel most will not. Having a dedicated forum might make it more understood for some that they were submitting their work for scrutiny for further learning and not pats on the back only. It is also a good point to not just tear down the bad issues but reaffirm the good things about the gun so they can be replicated again.  I really do not think there are a large number of novices who are intimidated by those with lots of guns under their belt, years of study and talent. Maybe I am wrong.

5) Other considerations that might promote more great exchange about current work?


6) It ain't broke, why change anything?
There is always some room for improvement in all things. Talking about them helps to solidify the good things as well as possibly expose a better way to skin a cat.

I firmly believe this particular website is a main component of so many good first and early efforts by new guys in this day an time. This phenomenon did not exist decades ago. In the past, the first efforts of even today's top builders found their way to the wood stove. Now there are more novices whose first work, while not perfect is definitely not kindling material.

[greybeard]

This is a most interesting topic. I only have 12 builds done to date and condider myself an ammature(?) I have only been on this site for 7 months and it took me a while to get enough courage to post some of my work as I have never handled many originals. I can only build from pics and my imagination. I of course like a bit of praise as I think all of us amatures do.
 Taylor & Hugh nearly always look at my posts and are free with their praise and are very subtle with their critique and sugestions and it is very much apreciated and they are always right.
  Since finding this site, my current build (#13) is my attempt at a Berks County gun, two of the members have sent me about 40 pics of guns by Reedy & Figthorn most appreciated.
Without the help and encouregment it would never happen.
    My praises go out to all the help and encouragment I have recieved from the members here and also to the administeraters and moderators who are responsible for this site.
    It's fine the way it is in my humble opinion. Cheers   Bob   (greybeard)

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree that this is a wonderful topic.  This web site and these forums have become an important part of my day - I peruse them at least once, sometimes, many times during the course of the day.
Over the years I have purchased all the books I could find, and from these alone, I have built quite a number of rifles and guns.  And I have been quite satisfied swimming along in my own muck - until Cody introduced me to this site.  Until then, he and Hugh Toenjes were about the only two builders I knew who could offer critique that meant anything, and one of the most enjoyable pastimes is sitting at Heffley with a glass of Bacody, going over our work.  I very quickly learned here, though, where I was lacking, and with the inspiration and help of a lot of you, I've endeavoured to "kick it up a notch".  The result is an increase in the satisfaction I derive from building and a renewed passion for it. 
It would be helpful or at least more convenient, I think, if there was a dedicated forum to critique contemporary work, though it already happens here in "Gun Building".  I often download images, saving them in files for later study and reference.  I hope that everyone will continue to submit their work here with an open mind - I certainly shall.