Author Topic: steel for breech plugs  (Read 6736 times)

camerl2009

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steel for breech plugs
« on: May 23, 2011, 02:06:52 AM »
what alloy of steel to use as of right now i do have some low carbon bar stock

people have told me that its easyer to buy a breech plug well not true when im making a breech for a double

thay say to buy the book on the double barrel muzzleloading shotgun well i dont have $50+ s&h for a book  :-\ when i could use that for parts and steel money is tight right now  :-[

help me out with this
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 02:07:32 AM by camerl2009 »

Dave Faletti

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 04:52:09 AM »
If you don't have $50 for a reference book you don't have enough for the materials and tooling to make the projects you are trying to do.  I would suggest simpler projects.  Another possibility is to use low carbon steel to make trial parts and see if you can fit them together.  Not to actually use but just to learn the steps and do it successfully.  A section of round stock and short piece of tubing can be fashioned into full scale trial parts to practice on.  Can you make and fit the parts you envision and do they match the drawings you create for your firearm?  At least then when you have the more  expensive parts or materials you know you will be successful.  You come across as someone whose projects and interests are well beyond their current  resouces and abilities.

camerl2009

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 05:22:37 AM »
If you don't have $50 for a reference book you don't have enough for the materials and tooling to make the projects you are trying to do.  I would suggest simpler projects.  Another possibility is to use low carbon steel to make trial parts and see if you can fit them together.  Not to actually use but just to learn the steps and do it successfully.  A section of round stock and short piece of tubing can be fashioned into full scale trial parts to practice on.  Can you make and fit the parts you envision and do they match the drawings you create for your firearm?  At least then when you have the more  expensive parts or materials you know you will be successful.  You come across as someone whose projects and interests are well beyond their current  resouces and abilities.

i have the tools all i need is a tap and die with 1"-8 thread the book to ship here is like $70 with shiping there is no parts for a double barrel flintlock shotgun you have to do it your self so thats it i dont see in wasting $70 shiped for some paper when i can buy a lock kit for about that im trying to build something to hunt with and i have the barrels now so that would be $150 gone down the drain i dont want to waste money on shiping for something i can do but the breech plugs i cant buy so i need to make it

oh and if i can build a race engine from a old 351 windsor block i can build a muzzleloader so my abilities are good enough with both wood and steel

« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 05:27:16 AM by camerl2009 »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 06:18:39 AM »
what alloy of steel to use as of right now i do have some low carbon bar stock

people have told me that its easyer to buy a breech plug well not true when im making a breech for a double

thay say to buy the book on the double barrel muzzleloading shotgun well i dont have $50+ s&h for a book  :-\ when i could use that for parts and steel money is tight right now  :-[

help me out with this

Low carbon is fine. 4140/4150 gun barrel quality, which I prefer, is good.
A great many cartridge guns have been made from mild steel, including a lot of 98 Mausers.
I have used  1018 cold rolled but prefer to heat and quench the bar before machining.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

camerl2009

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 06:35:04 AM »




Low carbon is fine. 4140/4150 gun barrel quality, which I prefer, is good.
A great many cartridge guns have been made from mild steel, including a lot of 98 Mausers.
I have used  1018 cold rolled but prefer to heat and quench the bar before machining.

Dan
[/quote]

4140 hmm i mite have some in the shed i'll have to look tomarrow should be marked on the tag still

Offline Glenn

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 06:54:08 AM »
what alloy of steel to use as of right now i do have some low carbon bar stock

people have told me that its easyer to buy a breech plug well not true when im making a breech for a double

thay say to buy the book on the double barrel muzzleloading shotgun well i dont have $50+ s&h for a book  :-\ when i could use that for parts and steel money is tight right now  :-[

help me out with this


Low carbon is fine. 4140/4150 gun barrel quality, which I prefer, is good.
A great many cartridge guns have been made from mild steel, including a lot of 98 Mausers.
I have used  1018 cold rolled but prefer to heat and quench the bar before machining.

Dan

Thanks for the info. and specs here Dan.  I've always wondered about the grade/numbers.

Got any suggestions on who to get good 4140 / 4150 bar stock from ... ???

Anybody got any idea what grade of steel the re-bar is that is used when pouring concrete?

Might be good to practice with, if nothing else ... ???
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 06:59:57 AM by GRA »
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

camerl2009

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 07:45:44 AM »
what alloy of steel to use as of right now i do have some low carbon bar stock

people have told me that its easyer to buy a breech plug well not true when im making a breech for a double

thay say to buy the book on the double barrel muzzleloading shotgun well i dont have $50+ s&h for a book  :-\ when i could use that for parts and steel money is tight right now  :-[

help me out with this


Low carbon is fine. 4140/4150 gun barrel quality, which I prefer, is good.
A great many cartridge guns have been made from mild steel, including a lot of 98 Mausers.
I have used  1018 cold rolled but prefer to heat and quench the bar before machining.

Dan

Thanks for the info. and specs here Dan.  I've always wondered about the grade/numbers.

Got any suggestions on who to get good 4140 / 4150 bar stock from ... ???

Anybody got any idea what grade of steel the re-bar is that is used when pouring concrete?

Might be good to practice with, if nothing else ... ???

if i do recall most rebar is 4140 its about mid way on carbon steel makes good knives  ;)

Offline tallbear

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 03:33:56 PM »
Cam
Most rebar is junk.No way of knowing what it's really made of.Don't use rebar for your plugs!!

Mitch

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 05:00:22 PM »
We call rebar  "mystery metal"   ;D

Offline ehoff

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 05:03:22 PM »
For other projects I've used onlinemetals.com, they sell by the foot and have no minimum order.

Steve-In

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 05:10:06 PM »
MSC will have small quantities of 4140.  They also carry the taps and dies.  
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm
Quote
i have the tools all i need is a tap and die with 1"-8 thread
1"-8 seems a mite big for the breech plug.  I would not want to thread a plug without the use of a lathe.  Also you will need a good correct size die wrench and a good stout vise to hold the plugs while you attempt to thread them ;D.  
As for the book check to see if your local library has a copy or can get one for you.  From what I am reading of your posts you do not a clue about where to start on this project.  The book is REALLY worth the money spent.
Another idea is to use this guy to make your plugs.  He made some hooked patent breeches for my brother and his work is top notch.  It may look expensive but in reality he can save you money. http://cap-n-ball.com/McC/

alsask

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 05:54:45 PM »
Aircraft Spruce sells 4130 and 4140 chrome moly by the foot.  4130 should be amply strong, its 90,000 psi tensile strength in the normalized condition.

Offline Captchee

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 08:56:40 PM »
 I  once witnessed a  long time airline pilot  crash a very expensive giant scale RC  aircraft  on it first flight because he insisted that   since he could fly a 747 , he surly could fly  a model .
 I often wonder if that was the quickest 5000 that he every spent .

As to the book . Again , as others have said  Brockway’s book  shows you how to make   everything your asking about . From the breech plugs  to  fitting them to barrels , to stock layout and making the lock ..
 Seems to me   that even IF you have the tools , which I question because not to long ago  you stated you  didn’t have the ability to make a breech plug  . Yet then  you  ask  about  drill out bar stock  for who knows what grade of metal , on some mysterious  machine. Never mind that if its capable of doing that job , surly  with some thought  you could figure out how to also use it to  help you turn  breech plugs  ::)
 
 My advise to you  is to BUY THE BOOK .  The cost is a lot cheaper then the hospital bill your enviably heading for..
Seriously your worried about  50.00 and shipping . Have you considered the cost of the locks  yet . How about the stock ?

 Folks , for the most part   im as willing as any of the rest of you  when it comes to giving someone the benefit of the doubt and  a helping hand .
 But  lets remember that  these guns  are not toys .  If built wrong they will kill  or at the very least maim .  hopfuly with any luck its only the person  who built it

 You all can use your own judgment here . But as for me . I don’t plan on  being part  of helping this person  hurt himself or anyone else .
 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 09:23:59 PM by Captchee »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 09:05:40 PM »
As a moderator I thought it considerate to allow a specific question- what sort of steel to use for breechplugs.  Question answered, mission accomplished.
Andover, Vermont

camerl2009

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 11:11:29 PM »
well i know what im doing with steel ive never made my own breech plug so that is why im asking

i dont have a lathe or a mill nor dose anyone i know $70 shiped for a book is just too much for a book i'll pay that money for parts and wood for a stock but not a book as thats a waste

hospital bill's ? hmm last time i checked i was in canada witch has free health care but im not going to need do go there any way

yes 1"-8 thread its going in a 12ga chamber needs to be big as the chambers are about .815 

Offline JTR

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2011, 11:14:11 PM »
Good luck in not hurting yourself or anyone else.
John
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: steel for breech plugs
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2011, 11:20:30 PM »
As Rich stated, "Question answered, mission accomplished."

As I see it only going downhill from here, this topic is now locked.

-Ron
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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie