need help with lock placement!!

[uplandhunter]

I built a Lancaster rifle before, but now I am building a fowler and I am confused with the lock placement. here are some picks. where should I place it and is any of the photos correct? 

[Black Hand]

The location of the side-flat (center) and the length of the breechplug of your inletted barrel will determine where the touch-hole will be located.  This will show where the pan needs to be and will locate the sideplate.  The web between the barrel channel and the rammer hole will show you approximately where your front lock bolt will go.

[uplandhunter]

and that places the lock

if I move it a little forward of the breach plug than I get this.

[Black Hand]

The bottom picture looks better but we need to see where the barrel sits....
When inlet, ~1/2 of the barrel flat is above the wood.

[uplandhunter]

[coutios]

 Is this a "kit" supplied to you or did you assemble your own parts?

Dave

[Black Hand]

Your picture shows that you have lots of extra wood to deal with.  Guessing at the size of the side flat, it appears that the lock may sit lower than where you showed it in you picture.  

If this was my gun, I'd remove the wood along the barrel channel until ~1/2 of the side flat was exposed before locating and inletting the lock.

But since this isn't my gun, I'd wait for further input from those on this site who are far more skilled/experienced than I.....
 


 

[Jerry V Lape]

Put the barrel with at least half of it exposed above the wood, maybe a 1/16" more than half exposed.  Draw lines on the side of the stock showing where the web between barrel channel and ramrod hole lies.  Draw a line showing approx center of the wrist about where the tail of the lock would reach.  

Mark on the barrel where the forward end of the breechplug is located, if you are going to use a touchhole liner then you need another line a smidge over half the diameter of the liner forward of the breechplug.  If not using a liner you can just clear the breechplug so the touchhole doesn't nick the plug.  That is where the center of your pan should line up.

Now with those lines laid out you can jigger the lock around until the tail is falling a smidge below center of that wrist line, the nose is positioned so the lockbolt can come through the web and into the nose properly, and of course where the pan is lined up with where you want the touchhole to be.  

On your pictures it looks to me as if the wood may still be too high on the barrel and the angle of the lock is way too high on the wrist area.  Part of that impression may be the angle at which  you photographed the thing. Another possibility with your stock - do you have the barrel inletted level at the breech. .  It is possible to have the barrel in at an angle which will tend to throw the lock tail too high.

[BillPac]

Here are a few pictures from the fowler class at the Log Cabin.



Look at how much of the side barrel flat is exposed on these guns compared to yours.  You need to get rid of all that wood before you can figure out the lock placement.
BillP

[Jerry V Lape]

Okay, the latest photos show you need to take off a lot of wood at the barrel line before laying out this lock.  As I said earlier, at least half the side flat exposed.  I think if you do that you will find your placement.  BillP's photos are good visual aid.  Reponses are really coming in to help you quickly. 

[uplandhunter]

thanks guys!! I knew something was wrong I just did not want to leep with out looking.

This is a stock built to fit my griffon fowler barrel. so I quess you could say it is a kit from Pecatonica.

[uplandhunter]

well it looks like I need a lot of elbow grease and time. well I better get started.

[uplandhunter]

here is where I am

[rich pierce]

It might be the angle of the picture but it looks like the barrel is not down and back all the way.  Make sure it's inlet so it has a solid firm backing at the breech, and clamp it down. It also looks like you have either a very short breechplug or have not accurately figured out where the front of the plug is.  Your touchhole must go in front of the breechplug which is often 1/2-5/8" long.  If you will use a liner, the touchhole needs to be about 1/8 to 3/16" in front of the breechplug.  Everything is determined by where the touchhole will be.  The touchhole must be centered in the pan and not rock bottom if you live where there's humidity.  Many prefer the so called "sunset position, where the touchhole is on a line drawn across the top of the pan.

[uplandhunter]

the barrels is inleted all the way.

[uplandhunter]

I checked the breach plug depth three times. I used a blank ram rod and put it down the barrel and marked it off, I then ask my wife to hold the ram rod in place and I mark it off on thestock.  I am sure I am right. 

[Meteorman]

Now with those lines laid out you can jigger the lock around until the tail is falling a smidge below center of that wrist line, the nose is positioned so the lockbolt can come through the web and into the nose properly, and of course where the pan is lined up with where you want the touchhole to be. 

what Jerry said.
I also try to make sure the line of the pan and bolster top are parallel with the line of the barrel flats
(red lines on photo would be parallel).  they might be for you, it could just be a photo angle thing. 
ya also might find that you can't keep the exact center of the nose of the lockplate, where you drew your circle, (blue arrow) dead center in the web of wood, and get everything else to line up.  My front lock bolt always (5 for 5 anyway) ends up entering above center on the lock plate
so my lock placement priority goes like this:
1) pan is properly located with respect to touchhole.
2) line across pan and bolster is parallel with barrel flat line
3) lock bolt thru wood web catches enough of lock plate to have integrity.

[uplandhunter]

I feel lost now. with a oct barrel I had not trouble, but this oct to round is throwing me for a loop.  

[uplandhunter]

last try!! after this I am just going over to steve bookouts tomorrow.

[Jerry V Lape]

On two of your photos showing the barrel from a top angle, it certainly looks like you need to set the barrel back enough to close up the gap between barrel shoulders and the stock face.  There is clearly some space there which just has to be taken up unless you are planning on glass bedding that surface.  Tend to that issue before going any further.  Then plan out your fillet that comes down from the top of the stock to the top line of the barrel inlet.  Right now your fillet appears to be too far forward.  

[uplandhunter]

 "fillet"

there is no gap it is just a shadow but I was thinking about beding. so maybe I will do that first. but what about the last potos?

[BillPac]

Here are a few more pictures with the lock in place.



You can see the lines I have drawn on the stock to show the position of the bottom of the barrel and the ramrod hole.  Hope this helps you "see" whats going on.  My lock is tilted just slightly down in the rear to get the tail where we wanted it.  Also the bolster is filed to a very slight taper to pull the tail into the wrist.  Again this is all from the Log Cabin fowler class with Jim Kibler and Ian Pratt.
BillP

[uplandhunter]

these pics really help!!

[bgf]

I may be wrong but it seems like the first problem is that Uplander can not see the vent location marked on the barrel.  Short of taking down the sides to final, you could just slot the stock slightly (it will be cut out for the bolster anyway) to reveal that marking then it might be easier to place everything, as you can see the relationship of the pan and vent.  Just a suggestion.

[greybeard]

uplanddhunter;  To my eye it still looks like there is still more wood than necessary . Make sure there is at least 1/2 or more of the barrel flat exposed and you should be good to go.  Bob