Barrel length and velocity??

[Pete G.]

If you cut the barrel on a longrifle does that make it an "American Shortrifle"

[Harnic]

Well, in my case it'll be a Canadian mid-length rifle... can I still play here anyway?  

[northmn]

My last build was a 12 ga. English influeced shotgun.  At least it loaded from the muzle.  For a ML thats about as far as you can get from an American Longrifle.  Hope we both can play here Harnic.  Saw a picture of an original J.P. Beck that appeared to be sawed off to 32 inches.  Don't know when it was done but it was left a flintlock.

DP

[Daryl]

Well do tell, DP.  My longrifle isn't a Beck or anything else by one maker, but it's a longrifle. I've got an old meat saw that might work! 32", eh?  Should I do the .40 Goodioen or the .45 GM? HA!

[Harnic]

All this chatter begs the question: How long does a barrel need to be on a longrifle before it's officially not a longrifle?  While we're at it, does my early flint Hawken with the current 42" barrel qualify as a longrifle?

[northmn]

I think the "longrifle" probably refers more to style than actual barrel length.  More of an American thing.  The English and German rifles were not only shorter, but of distinct styles.  The Longrifle is a style generally associated with longer barrels.  Sawing off barrels goes a ways back also.  One way to fix a damaged barrel, and in some places long guns  can be a little clumsy.  Rogers Rangers were said to have sawed off their Bess's.  Although I suggest the surgery be done with a hack saw and not a meat saw. 

DP

[Daryl]

Harry, while your rifle is currently a loooooong rifle, it is not a Longrifle.  Your rifle is set in time and place to separate it from the true longrifles in my opinion.
; DP -  they may have had hacksaws (called something else) - maybe not.  I used the 'term meat' saw as that is the name most used in Firearms of the American West in quotes, etc from the period 1800 though to 1894.

[northmn]

It is quite a shame to take a saw to a finished rifle, whatever saw that they refer to.  One reason I can do it is that I lack the artistical appreciation some have and consider a firearm a tool.  I learned it was better to sell them for full value than to do modifications and sell later.  Never got to the artistry level many have for the same reason, wanted to get the things shooting.  And if they do not shoot well do my best to make them shoot well.
I prefer to leave the determination of the type of rifle that is a long rifle to others.  I remember reading an article on the differences between a carbine and a short rifle.  didn't impress me enough to say much about it.

DP

[crispy]

harry theres enuf barrel there to make two of Darylls canoe guns ,, or one canoe gun an two pistols

[Harnic]

harry theres enuf barrel there to make two of Darylls canoe guns ,, or one canoe gun an two pistols

I am considering a short belt pistol with the 6" chunk I cut off Chris, something more period correct for the Heffley rendezvous than my Ruger Old Army!

[Daryl]

Harry- The .54 barrel for my Flint pistol has a 60" or 66" twist and with 50gr. 3F shoots exceptionally well. The 18" twist .45 barrel for the same pistol shoots only 20 to 25gr.  The .54 does have some power, about like my 4" m29.

[Harnic]

Daryl, you are correct (as usual!) about my rifle not being a true Longrifle.  I really like the look of it on my office wall, where it resides most of the time, but from a purely practical point of view it's good for little other than a wall ornament.  If I shortened it by at least 6" it would balance much better & be a lot easier to shoot offhand.  Then of course the rod thimbles & barrel keys are all wrong... oh bother!  I'll just leave it on the wall except for a couple trips to the range before Heffley!  Maybe I'll build a shooting rifle/gun next winter!  I had the muzzle loading bug real bad back in the 70s & 80s, but I seem to have recovered & spend most of my shooting time playing with a couple favourite cast bullet rifles & pistols...

[northmn]

As I said it hurts to cut them down.  You not only run into problems with thimble placement which can be fixed but replacing the nose cap and possible refinishing problems.  Make the shooter a barn gun like Don Getz likes, they ain't all bad.

DP

[Harnic]

Dp, I LOVE my long fullstock Hawken just as it is, but both Daryl & Taylor can confirm how quickly my shooting deteriorated on the trail walk!  By shot #8, I was shaking like a rattler's tail trying to hold that 42" x 1" barrel out there!  I managed to tag a few targets at the start, but by half way up the mountain I was just making smoke & noise!  I'm going to give Roger's plan (more weight in the butt ) a more serious try this winter, but I suspect chopping off at least 6" will be the best solution to the accuracy issue...  It will look butchered with the wedges & thimbles in the wrong place.

[Daryl]

As did the originals that were also cut down.  There be one pictured in Firearms of the American West.  I suspect your rifle shortened, will look much better than a 1/2 stock shortened from 34" to 26" & with only one thimble.  Your's being a full stock will be must more presentable.  I thought of doing the same to mine - NOT!
 Of course Harry, the alternative is to do some weight training or eat more protein. 

[northmn]

I don't know about you younger people, but weight training for me is walking across the room with my extra weight. Exercise for the sake of exercise when I am lucky to keep up with firewood never appealed to me.  Ran the 440 yard in track in high school and 2 years of college.  I have this barely controllable urge to shoot joggers and put them out of their misery.  Told taht was a result of putting my self through the torture.  The extra protein is OK if the darn deer would cooperate this year.  Would rather shorten a rifle.  As I stated I understand the reluctance to buthcer a fine rifle one is proud of.  For shooting Shimmels are great.

DP

[Harnic]

I suspect if I can't get the balance issue dealt with by adding a bunch of lead into the holes I drilled under the butt plate, this rifle will be for display on my office wall & bench/chunk shooting & I'll have to choose between a new wall tent & building a new, lighter rifle for next year... I think the tent is going to win that one!

[Daryl]

Since Devcon weighs less than real steel, you could always mount an "A" weight swamped barrel in .40 cal. That would lighten it up considerably - probably down to 8 pounds.  The "A" is 1" at the breech - then tapers forward making for an easy holding barrel - then comes the Devcon.

[Harnic]

Which us heavier Daryl, Devcon or Acra_Glas Gel?  I have lots of the latter & the dyes to match my stock.  I suspect it won't be hard to dribble some darker Acra-Glas across the barrel channel before setting the new barrel in to match the striping of the grain.  Not a bad idea Daryl, but maybe I'll stick with 50 cal in a swamped barrel to make it even lighter.  I never exceed 80 gr of 3f GOEX, so there won't be any pressure issued to deal with.  If I went for a quicker rifling twist I'd shoot light charges all the time... somewhere in the 1 in 48 to 1 in 60 range would suit me fine.  GM's 1 in 70 twist might be good for a hunting barrel but I'd prefer a faster twist for a fun gun.  Now to search for an appropriate barrel!

[Daryl]

A .50 barrel will get you into a larger breech ("B" or "C" weight) and require some millng work - or a lot of draw filing. It is a definite possibility, though.  Of course, you're probably used to draw-filing after doing your GM barrel.

[northmn]

Another option would be to go to a 62 Cal 1".  Would still not be a lightweight but would cut weight and fit. 

DP

[Harnic]

You think a lot like me Dp!  i've been considering a 62 ever since I built this heavyweight!  I can find another project for this 50 cal barrel, so I may just order a 42" x 1" 62 cal barrel for xmas!

[Daryl]

Sounds great, Harry. They shoot really well with 120gr. 2F.

[Harnic]

Oh $#@*!  Now that I've stocked up on GOEX FFF!

[Leatherbelly]

Harry,
  Now your talkin! Just replace it with the .62. That will knock a pound and a half outta her. Then you can build yourself a nice swamped "B" weight 40 or 45  longrifle from Chambers and all is good!