Blue Painted Trade guns

[Dennis Glazener]

I thought Clay Smith's blue painted trade guns were interesting. Anyone know anymore about them?
http://www.claysmithguns.com/Blue%20Trade%20Gun.htm
Dennis

[James Rogers]

Robert Greenhow's recollection of Williamsburg c1775:

"the youth of Williamsburg formed themselves into a military corps and chose Henry Nicholson as their Capt.; that on Dunmore's flight from Williamsburg, they repaired to the magazine and armed themselves with blue painted stock guns kept for the purpose of distributing among the Indians, and equip't as the minute men volunteers in military garb, that is to say in hunting shirts, trousers, bucktails, cockades and "Liberty or Death" suspended to their breasts as their motto; that they could and did perform all the evolutions of the manual exercise far better than the soldiers who were daily arriving from the adjacent counties; that their Captain, Henry Nicholson, he supposes, was about 14 years old.

Brumbaugh's Revolutionary records p237

[Dennis Glazener]

Interesting, thanks James.
Dennis

[smallpatch]

The blue guns on that sight look amazingly close to the Type G trade gun.  Their original purpose was to buy alliance with the local tribes against the French.   

[Tim Crosby]

 If I remember right there is one in the Powder Mag in W'burg, a contemporary piece.

 Tim C.

[Clark Badgett]

Those are interesting. Is it just my monitor or is the blue used in the reproductions seem to be far more neon than actual Prussian Blue, which I've always seen as a medium-darker blue?

I have seen Prussian Blue listed in some old ordnance manuals as an ingredient used either in black leather dye or black patent leather paint.

[TPH]

Prussian Blue is a darker blue certainly but it is not considered a dark blue. As with other pigments it can give shades of blue running from a medium dark to a fairly light blue. Apparently the blue was used to color paint used on stocks and you will find yellow stocks as well as red ones too.

The history of Prussian Blue can be found here:

http://www.webexhibits.org/pigments/indiv/overview/prussblue.html

[flintriflesmith]

The blue guns on that sight look amazingly close to the Type G trade gun.  Their original purpose was to buy alliance with the local tribes against the French.   

They were also refered to (here in VA) in the period as "Carolina Guns" because the bulk of our Indian trade was south and west through NC and into the Cherokee Nations.

The blue painted guns in the Magazine were just a small part of the trade goods stored there because building the Magazine about 1714-16 was jointly funded by the government and the Indian traders. That predates the major concerns about the French. I don't think the blue ones were special--some others had spotted stocks and some were decorated with vines like the Bumford on my web site.
Gary

[Fullstock longrifle]

Gary, I've observed several guns from the Reading area of Pennsylvania that show remnants of red paint on the stocks.  I've also seen two guns that had most of the red paint still remaining.  Is this an indication of trade guns as well?

FK

[flintriflesmith]

FK,
I think you'd have to start by looking at the type and quality of the gun, rather than the paint, to determine is a gun might have been made for the NA trade. In the case of these Carolina Guns they are of some of the least expensive materials and construction techniques. By the way, poor folks also bought them for their own use.

A very long time ago I owned a half stock percussion shotgun that was completely painted red and the paint looked like red lead that had had been there for the life of the gun. It had a Conestoga Wagon Works signed lock. At the time I had no idea about it but now I suspect it was made for trade to the western tribes in the mid - 19th century. Of course it could have been made for trade in Africa.
Gary

[mr. no gold]

There is at least one, very fine, and nicely carved, rifle made by John Bonawitz that has traces of red paint on it. Jack Brooks is of the opinion that it was made that way. I saw it, but many years ago, and it is indeed red, perhaps milk paint. One can only hope that an owner since that time has not had the paint removed. It would kind of be like the fellow I knew who found a nice Gumph rifle and wanted to return it to a new condition. So, he pried out the brass tacks, pulled off the leather wrappings and 'restored' it. Totally ruined a good western trails gun. And, he threw the old tacks and leather away!
Dick

[Fullstock longrifle]

I've seen the rifle your referring to Dick, I just couldn't remember if it was a Reedy or a Bonawitz, but it's a heck of a nice relief carved gun.  I'm sure the paint was put on when the rifle was made and it's original to the gun.  The other guns I've seen that were painted red were late 18th century, early 19th century rifles.  Two of them had apparently been stripped of the paint, but you could still see remnant's of the red down in the recesses of the stock.  I guess some owners along the line thought the paint was added later and removed it.  There was a  reason for the red paint, I'm just not sure what it was.

FK

[Dennis Glazener]

There is at least one, very fine, and nicely carved, rifle made by John Bonawitz that has traces of red paint on it. Jack Brooks is of the opinion that it was made that way. I saw it, but many years ago, and it is indeed red, perhaps milk paint. One can only hope that an owner since that time has not had the paint removed.

Just happen to have some photos of a rifle like that. Take a look at the center rifle below :



And one by itself:

[Fullstock longrifle]

Yes, that's the rifle I was talking about Dennis. It's hard to see in the picture, but it's definitely been painted red.

FK

[Dennis Glazener]

I just added another one that may show it a little better.
Dennis

[mr. no gold]

I agree with Frank; that is the gun I saw. Then, it was in Colorado, some 25 years ago. Very glad to see that it still has the paint on the stock. Thanks, Dennis for posting the photos.
Dick 

[Dphariss]

FK,
I think you'd have to start by looking at the type and quality of the gun, rather than the paint, to determine is a gun might have been made for the NA trade. In the case of these Carolina Guns they are of some of the least expensive materials and construction techniques. By the way, poor folks also bought them for their own use.

A very long time ago I owned a half stock percussion shotgun that was completely painted red and the paint looked like red lead that had had been there for the life of the gun. It had a Conestoga Wagon Works signed lock. At the time I had no idea about it but now I suspect it was made for trade to the western tribes in the mid - 19th century. Of course it could have been made for trade in Africa.
Gary

This is a Conestoga Rifle Works rifle that was finished with a red varnish that was translucent.
It was unused and I am sure the varnish was original.
Dan

[flintriflesmith]

Dan,
Did you intend to include a photo with your post? Since you quoted my post about a shotgun I assume you are talking about a different gun but am not clear on your reference.
Gary

[Dphariss]

OOPS



Sorry the picture is not better but I have lost the better scans I had nor can I find the photos right now to e-scan. These were taken "pre-digital" at a gunshow under the available light (florescent) and the varnish as I recall was redder than the photos show. But its been a long time since I saw the rifle. Which is Conestoga Rifleworks marked and Leman 1840 on the lock.
All the color appeared to be in the varnish. But it was not opaque and the wood was visible though it.
It was not a flaky varnish and the rifle was apparently unused and only have handling/storage dents and dings.



Dan