Anybody have the latest KRA Newsletter?

[Bob Smalser]

I'm told it contains an early John Moll rifle with an engraving of a full-length Indian on the patchbox lid.

If so, it likely does more than answer the Indian-versus-Liberty Cap questions.  It's a key piece of the puzzle.
 
Evidence points to John Moll I owing his early economic success at his first try at full-time (as opposed to seasonal) gunmaking to the Whitehall-Allen Township Massacre of October 8th, 1763.  Hence, Moll's Indians may have been carved or engraved to mark an occasion, not as objects of whimsy or emnity.  And subsequent carvers of Indian heads on their rifles may well have been honoring their master, for Moll probably trained Newhard as a first or early apprentice, and between the two of them they trained the first-generation of Kuntzes and Rupps.

I'd sure like to see that rifle.

[jdm]

Bob,  It's not a rifle . It's just a patchbox lid and finial. It.does appear to be Molls work.  But the answer Indian or not . Still could go either way.   It is a very neat box.   JIM

[rich pierce]

The figure is wearing shoes with heels, if that says anything.

[Don Getz]

Bob...all that is shown is a patchbox that has been altered, but, from what remains it appears to be a Moll patchbox.  The
interesting thing is that darned Head with a body.   Even with the body attached, one cannot really surmise what it is supposed to be.   Actually looks like it has a skirt on, and is holding a rifle.  I don't think it really answers the question.....
Don

[Eric Kettenburg]

He stated in the article that he believed the box to be from a John Moll II rifle, and I would agree with him.  I do not in any way think the engraving is that of John Sr. - i.e., the guy who was working in Berks ca. 1751 at least and thence to Allentown - and I am basing this opinion on earlier signed "John Moll" rifles with much more refined and competent engraving, as well as engraving remnants on two restocked guns with "Johannes Moll" inlaid barrels.  John II and later John III do not appear to have developed the engraving skills of the old man, although attributing all these Moll rifles to respective Johns is still somewhat sketchy.

FWIW, I see it as a depiction of a rifleman:  heels as mentioned above, a rifle w/ a box and what looks (to me) like a long hunting shirt.  But then, I'm biased - I really don't buy the indian representation save for one or two rifles where a very clear representation of an indian was engraved or carved complete w/ feather.

[smshea]

I cant add much to the conversation except to say how cool I think it is! What a great find, altered or not. Could be a rifleman, could be an Indian but I would say it is not likely a women as I tend to make it in my somewhat looser Lehigh interpretations and will likely continue to do so just because its fun .
 Unless it has slipped by me, I don't think I have seen another Moll box with the Mystery head on it. There are a bunch of unsigned guns floating around with a head engraved on the box lid, But I cant think of one that I believed to be a Moll... or any of the other Big 3 Allentown families of gunsmiths for that matter. Eric maybe you can correct me if forgetting an obvious example. 
 Either way, it adds more intrigue to the Mystery Figure of the Lehigh area and is a truly great piece of history...an awesome find! Love it! 

[Eric Kettenburg]

I've never seen a signed Moll with the head on the box either.  All of the Molls had it where just about everyone else put it, forward of the guard.  Doesn't the bust carved on one of the rifles somewhere clearly have t**s?  I suppose that would indicate a woman.  Maybe the big clunky John Rupp?  Have to go back and check through the photos.  I have to say though that the box lid pictured on the newsletter sure looks like John II or III (it gets REAL murky with those two) to me - the engraving that is.  But I suppose it really could have been anyone in the area.

[nord]

Have a look here...




While Schroyer didn't engrave the indian on the lid, he certainly did include same in the overall motif.

[Bob Smalser]

Besides not appearing to have innate skills as an artist ala the Kuntz brothers, John II probably didn't do much engraving.

Gander at the Moll-Newhard-Kuntz Triangle Timeline I posted separately, and you'll see that John II had less than six years working with his father between 1787 and 1794....and that's assuming Johannes Sr was working up until he died.  

Then it appears John II worked largely alone for the nest 10 years.

His formative years were spent during the years of a tough economy as the new country got back on its feet after the war.  Between runaway inflation, and several attempts at stabilizing banking systems and currency, I suspect there wasn't much demand in rural Allentown for fancy guns.

As an aside, John II appears to have been a man of excellent character.  His father-in-law thought enough of him to make him executor of his estate...one of the richest in the county at that time.  Both his uncle and younger brother were war heroes during the Revolution and War of 1812.

And thanks all for your input on the newsletter.