Author Topic: Trying to make a throwing axe  (Read 4831 times)

LURCHWV@BJS

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Trying to make a throwing axe
« on: June 20, 2011, 03:58:06 AM »
 I took some 2in strap beat the center down to1 in. Thinned the center down a bit, folded the two ends over and tried to weld them together .  I used baking soda for flux,had it hot enough the ends started to melt..  still can't get them to weld.  Any suggestions?


Rich

Harnic

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 04:06:52 AM »
never heard of baking soda as a flux Rich.  I always use Borax & it works GREAT!

Offline James

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 06:10:21 AM »
Harnic is right. Some use anhydrous borax, but the stuff from the store works if everything else is right.
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ottawa

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 02:53:50 PM »
I use the 20 mule borax

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 03:37:17 PM »
Got some last night. Hopefully I'll have some pics soon.


Rich

Offline KNeilson

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2011, 03:19:07 AM »
Hi Rich,  Borax is want you want. Twenty Mule Team works great but will "fluff" up and blow away when applying it, anhydrous will just melt onto the steel. I have made my own anhydrous borax flux by boiling TMT and pouring onto a steel plate and then grinding back to powder.  Adding a little boric acid and or iron powder is also what some do. My first few attempts at forge welding were quite unsuccesful, and I have over 30 years in industry as a welder atm. I would suggest just trying to make the weld first (just two bits of metal).  When you have success at that, try the axe...hope this helps..  Kerry

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 04:41:13 AM »
I thought I remembered someone saying somewhere you needed to bring  TMT to a boil let it cool then return it to a powder.  I forgot about that.  Just spent the last four hours heatn and beaten..   Still no weld.  Tomorrow is another day , full of challenges. I'm hot, smelly, dirty and there is no water to take a shower .... The town is replacing a hydrant. God I wish they'd hurry. >:(

Offline Jay Close

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 05:24:35 AM »
An axe head is an ambitious first welding project. If you've tried repeatedly to take a weld unsuccessfully, you may have so thoroughly scaled, oxidized, messed up the material that you would be better off starting over from fresh. That weld may never take.

20 Mule Team borax from the grocery store is fine as a flux. You will have no problems with it flaking off if you put it on hot enough. Heat your ax to a nice orange before fluxing and the borax will melt immediately and be sucked by capillary action into the joint.  I tend to use a lot of borax and if I'm taking a long time to bring a weld up to heat I'll even re-flux. The borax is so liquid it can just run off into the fire and need to be reapplied.

Buy or make anhydrous borax if you want but it's not necessary.

Keep your fire clean, make sure you have a good bed of coke under and  around the work and a loose covering of coke on top. You are trying to create a neutral atmosphere.  Heat evenly. If you need to flip the work in the fire to heat another side, try not to tear up the fire too much.

Get it welded by the eye first, then take another heat to move the weld down the blade. Incorporate a higher carbon steel bit if you want .....probably best to tuck the steel well into the cleft of the weld to help insulate it.

Final point: do you have any idea what kind of material you're working with? If it is old mild steel like true 1020 you'll do OK. But the now standard A36 structural steel is often of suspicious parentage, mostly scrap. Sometimes you'll get a piece that is unholy resistant to forge welding particularly with borax. Sometimes you have to up the ante and use a commercial flux like EZ weld or just find a different bar.

Good luck. PM me if I can offer any further help.


Offline Canute Rex

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 06:40:49 AM »
Jay Close is right about modern A36 steel - some of it has oddball recycled content that forms an oxide skin that makes forge welding essentially impossible. Jay also has good advice about technique.

The main thing is cleanliness. Get the scale off the steel beforehand. Pre-shape the steel so the flux has somewhere to go when you hit it. Think of pressing the balls of your thumbs together. They touch at the center first and then outward. In forge welding shaping the steel like this is called scarfing the joint. Get the flux (20-mule team is fine) in place early, at a red-orange heat. Make sure you have a thick bed of coke so that the fire is oxygen starved at the top. Otherwise you will tend to oxidize the steel, and that gets in the way of the weld. Bring the steel up to a yellow heat, but not sparkling white. Hammer it from the center out. It should spit some flux. Don't spend too long hammering it, but wire brush it, reflux it, and get it back in the fire. Repeat.

When welding in a high carbon piece for the edge, remember that the high carbon steel will burn at a lower temperature than the mild steel. Weld at a darker yellow than you think is right.

Just for illustration, think about this: If you take two pieces of mild steel, say 2" square and 1/4" thick, machine them down as fine and flat on one face as you can, polish them, and then degrease them and then place them face to face, they will stick a little. That is the iron atoms cohering at a microscopic level. Put the plates together on an anvil and hit them with a sledge and they will weld at room temperature. The only reason we heat to forge weld is to save us the machining time - the hammering knocks down the irregularities for full surface contact. The heated acidic flux also cleans the oxides off the surface and washes them away. You can weld at an orange heat if everything is clean enough.

You should also make a drift. That is just a long chunk of steel in the shape of the handle, used as a form. For a throwing axe it is a teardrop shape in cross section, tapering down towards the handle end. Once you have the eye welded you can drive the drift in and use it to form the eye properly.

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Trying to make a throwing axe
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 05:32:34 AM »
Wow,l

Thanks a million.  You all have helped in a big way.  Have had  some PM's sent. To answer s some questions,I am using a coal forge with coal from a few old mlnes in the area. Some what I call almost coal from the creek at the homeplace. And a little from derailment. The blower is electric squirrel cage off a Peterbuilt. Backup is a  Buffalo Forge no210 hand bellows. I have been using2" strap1/4in . I had to walk away from it for a couple dayz,.......to do list and all you know . Gotta keep momma happy. I'll try putting the flux on sooner. Maybe try aqain monday... ... Again thank you.

   Rich