Organizing shoots and rendezvous

[James]

For those who have held shoots or rendevous on their land, what liability/insurance issues are there?

[Daryl]

Our insurance demands we charge an entry fee for a shoot or for a 'day pass' shooter. That entry fee or pass gives them the same coverage as any club member for that day or event.  There is nothing extra (no extra event insurance charges) due to the type, perhaps, of insurance coverage we have.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Daryl is referring to hosting a shooting event or rendezvous on the leased property of the local rod and gun club.  The club carries an insurance policy which insures members and those who have paid an entrance fee or bought a day pass, for 5 million in personal injury or liability.

Hosting an event on private land is entirely another matter.

[Daryl]

Oh yeah - missed that MOST important detail - on THEIR land. sorry - can't help.  In the States I would be !@*%&@ careful of putting on anything on my own land - probably wouldn't here either.

Did-ja know that a pole done in the States a few years back of baby bomers    "how are you going to fund their retirement?"

  45% stated they planned on financing their entire retirement by way of a civil lawsuit.

[Kermit]

Where can I find information on this "pole" and who did it? As a former academic researcher I'm always interested in social science research methodology. Bet this one's a hum-dinger of exemplary statistical protocols. 

[zimmerstutzen]

A Club can get  insurance through the NMLRA.  Some clubs and the rendevous system host events on private land all the time.     One of the local clubs here, is only on private land owned by another and they have been there for at least  25 years. 
I looked into running a BPCR match years ago, and the jerks at a national organization (Not the NMLRA) wanted us to (1) have an incorporated organization (non-profit or not for profit ok) and (2) pay an assciation fee of about $200 before we could be considered as eligible for the associations's group insurance.  We couldn't get them to tell us if the insurance was $50 a year per event or $5,000 a year per event.  That information couldn't be released to non-member orgs. 
I called an insurance agent who write insurance for "shooter" farms and hunting camps.  Basically, he suggested a single event type of insurance, which wasn't cheap.  IIRC it would have been a little over $300 for  $1,000,000 coverage for everyone involved inculding the land owner.   
I work with auto insurance policies and dealing with trying to get insurance for a BPCR event was frustrating to the point that we dropped it..

 

[Daryl]

Where can I find information on this "pole" and who did it? As a former academic researcher I'm always interested in social science research methodology. Bet this one's a hum-dinger of exemplary statistical protocols. 

Took place 'bout 8 to 10 years ago, heard about it just after getting out of the hospital - back operation - or was it before? Seems to me, it was done in New york city and Los Angeles. About the same time the info on 55% divorce rate came out.

[northmn]

I have a friend at work that likes to have get togethers and do a little shooting.  While he likes modern stuff, I am sure the problems would be the same.   Basically, unless its a couple of people doing a sight in or something like that, he is not covered.  Clubs usually cash in on NRA insurance.  Our local club uses that and gives membership discounts to NRA members as they have to have a minimum number of the membership in the NRA.   About the best you could probably do is have someone else lease your land, (you can set up the lease for a weekend or a time frame) and organize a club, then use club insurance like the NRA. When I started a 3-D shoot in my area, I went to the local sportsmans club and talked them into sponsoring the event as they had the land and were already set up legally to do this sort of thing.  I have never regreted it.  A local BP club wanted to lease from them and hold thier shoot.  Basically it failed as the club would have to charge more for a lease than the BP club wanted to pay and then again there are insurance issues and inconvenience to the club.  By making it their event I avoided that. Besides that it sfun to occaisionally shoot trap or skeet at that club anyway.  Your primary liability is basically that of someone spraining an ankle or something similar.

DP

[James]

Well, I figured this was the case. Another bad idea on my part. Thanks to all though. James

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

You can draw up a waiver on one of the legal websites and then have everyone who shoots waive their right to sue by signing the form in front of witnesses.  If nothing else it puts everyone on notice....

[zimmerstutzen]

Having every one that shoots sign a waiver doesn't cover the neighbor's, trespassers. bystanders or spectators.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...nor will it, I am told by a good lawyer, stand up in court.

[Roger Fisher]

...nor will it, I am told by a good lawyer, stand up in court.

Correct!

[Daryl]

BTW our insurance up here, which we get with our club membership, also covers us anywhere we are engaged in shooting sports, probably only in Canada, but think it might also cover us out of country - to the tune of 3 or 5 million, whichever it is for public liability and property damage.

[northmn]

...nor will it, I am told by a good lawyer, stand up in court.

I have been told the same thing by an attorney and insurance agents.  Insurance companies like them because they can bluff out some small time suits.  It is not legal to sign away your right for compensation.  
Another point I will make on signing up with an existing sportsman club is that you start gaining economy of scale with a larger organization.  I have seen a lot of individual interest clubs flop due to the cost of finding club grounds or getting equipment,  but those associated with a larger club seem to keep going.  There are politics admittedly, but you get that no matter what.  I used to throw 2 large tournaments every year fo rthe archery group and I could show them a nice little income from that.  The shotgun shooters claimed they made more money for their division but did not include the tournaments as that was not "fair".  The tournaments also brough in "outside money" where the shotgun events were all club member dollars.

DP

[doug]

     I think what Daryl is referring to is BC Wildlife Federation insurance which covers all of its members while engaged in legal shooting activities.  The black powder group that I belong to is a part of our local fish and game club and we are free to participate in all club activities not just black powder.  As long as the rendezvous is a sanctioned club event (which it is) we are covered by the club's insurance which may in part be associated with BCWF insurance mentioned above.  Also worth noting that if the club member was not negligent in causing the injury, it is the victim who relies on the club or federation for compensation.  I presume that is where the fee for the event comes into play by making them a temporary member of the club, in effect.  We also are a public range and I am sure that our club insurance covers us against liability of non members shooting (for a fee) at our club.

cheers Doug

[Daryl]

Whether it's BC Wildlife Fed. Insurance or what, I don't know. I do know the insurance I get with a $100.00 or $125.00 membership covers me when off the range's grounds, hunting of legally plinking.

[doug]

      Both your club and mine are members of BCWF and about $17 or $18 per year per club member goes to the federation to cover our membership (thru the club) in the federation.  I think there are 35,000 members in the province who belong to the BCWF

cheers Doug