TEAK OIL

[hortonstn]

i'm about to finish my stock on my lancaster flintlock, i've given it 2 coats of dangler orange and next will be danglers red,  i've got jim chambers stock sealer but i have a question about teak oil
has anyone used it and does it leave a satin finish ?
any coments would be appreciated
paul

[Curtis]

Paul - I have only used teak oil once so far, I refinished a Cabelas Hawken with it.  There is a lot of discrepancy out there about what is real teak oil and what is labeled teak oil at the hardware store, so your mileage may vary.  The bottom line is I was quite happy with what I used, it was 30 year old stuff I got from my mother when she was cleaning out some old odds and ends.  I rubbed it back with 0000 steel wool after each coat and it gave a nice satin finish.
Here is a pic with the rifle in it:


 

[Don Getz]

I have been using Teak oil as a sealer, it is real thin, like water and soaks into the wood real well.   Have never continued
on after one or two coats as a sealer.  Might have to give it a try..........Don

[blackdog]

I've used watco teak oil and it doesnt dry to a hard finish like danish oil but rubbing in beeswax over it makes a nice hand rubbed glow.

[bob in the woods]

Petroleum distillates / cancer in a can, whatever you want to call them. These finishes are still not correct , don't work as well, and take more work to accomplish the desired finish than the real macoy oil finish of old.
IMO of course   

[Dphariss]

i'm about to finish my stock on my lancaster flintlock, i've given it 2 coats of dangler orange and next will be danglers red,  i've got jim chambers stock sealer but i have a question about teak oil
has anyone used it and does it leave a satin finish ?
any coments would be appreciated
paul

If you are gong to use store bought oil anyway get some turpentine and pour some in a shallow dish and allow to age in open air for 2-5 days.
When the turp is aged mix tru-oil and hardware store boiled linseed oil about 50-50.
Mix in 1 part of the turp to 4-5 parts oil, mix well and apply to the stock heavily until it will soak up no more. Allow to set 15 minutes then wipe dry.
If you set it in bright sun it will set faster but some oil may erupt from pores in the wood and this should be wiped as the stock warms.

I have never tried Chambers oil but suspect that it would work well with turp as well as a sealer and is surely better than Tru-oil but TO is easy to find locally.
I suppose I should order some with the next lock or parts I order just to see how it works.

The turp adds some resin to the oil and it carries oxygen so it helps kick over the finish in the wood.
I would then use the 50-50 mix with no turp as the rest of the finish.
Adding BLO to Tru-oil softens it and makes it more elastic since its pretty brittle as it comes from the jar.

Clear finishes will not produce the same color that the oils and varnishes originally used will.
The modern clear or nearly clear finishes do not bring out the contrast in the wood very well and in many cases actually hide it.
I don't see the point coloring the stock with 2-4 different colors that may or may not be color fast and/or using tung or teak oil  or some plastic goo on a long rifle when there are other traditional options that work better and usually a lot easier.
Dan

[54Bucks]

 I've had some success using Chem Pack Pro Custom Oil. Which supposedly has tung oil among other things in it. I certainly wouldn't be concerned with what is "correct or the real Mccoy" as any concoction based on linseed oil needs resisns or varnish added to give any protection from the elements. Pro custom oil protects better than plain BLO hands down. The only thing I didn't like about Pro Custom Oil is needing to knock down the shine with rottenstone, as it left a residue around any imperfect inlets like inlays. Perhaps I should have used 0000 steel wool.

[Dphariss]

I've had some success using Chem Pack Pro Custom Oil. Which supposedly has tung oil among other things in it. I certainly wouldn't be concerned with what is "correct or the real Mccoy" as any concoction based on linseed oil needs resisns or varnish added to give any protection from the elements. Pro custom oil protects better than plain BLO hands down. The only thing I didn't like about Pro Custom Oil is needing to knock down the shine with rottenstone, as it left a residue around any imperfect inlets like inlays. Perhaps I should have used 0000 steel wool.

Yeah having to think and learn about period finishes is just such a pain.
Plastic is SO much better.
I bet that the stuff is 40-60% petroleum distillate.

How about this.
Maybe we could get someone to cast LR stocks from plastic. Think of the savings! No more worry about grain flow or stains.
No learning to inlet. Heck we could probably have many parts cast right into the stock, perfect fit. No need to even think about finish. Just create stripes with masking tape and chose the color from the rattle can rack at Ace.
Cast in carving.
Better living though chemistry.

Dan

[Robert Wolfe]

Dan, it's OK to not like "plastic" finishes, I don't either,  but I think the tone of that post was a bit uncalled for.

[bob in the woods]

The modern type finishes are claimed some to protect from the elements better,but I have not found that to be the case. The old "traditional" finishes do work, but they have to be correct; ie not some modern version of a traditional finish. Pet. distillates /solvents are not good for people or rifles IMO, and they never look right to my eye. Sortof like painting a Model T Ford orange    Honestly, if asked, I will advise anyone to go traditional.I have a rifle that I finished 5 or 6 years ago and used in the woods. It has a Permalyn finish, which I thought looked pretty good at the time. A fowler of mine is also well used, but has a oil [Tried and True Varnish oil ] finish. It has weathered well, and looks better the more it is used.
I can spot the difference across a room.
Perhaps this should be noted as a difference between Contemporary and Traditional styles, since there really  is a split in the road on some of these points, and beliefs re what is best seldom change.

[JCKelly]

The one field (to my knowledge) where there is recorded long-time experience with what drying oils do is the field of oil painting, some five hundred years worth.

Both the artsy portrait painters and James Virgil Howe agree that the best film is made from cold-pressed (not steam distilled) linseed oil. This may be purchased in 2 oz thru maybe pint bottles at a good art supply store, or on the internet e.g. wwwdickblick.com, www.cheapjoes.com.

So-called "boiled linseed oil" at the hardware is steam-distilled oil with driers added - to dry faster. The film strength is not so good as with cold pressed oil. But it drys fast.

Oil does thicken with heat, which is good for a stock finish & for that I offer for your consideration that you get some "stand oil", from whatever art supply suits you. The price of these two types of linseed oil is no more than that of modern stock finishes.

About real turpentine, which is most likely to be found in art supply sources, the art guys say: "Pure gum spirits of turpentine contain hydroxides that react with acids in drying oils to bind free oxygen", which means it helps the oil film "dry".

Besides art history, we have our own history at least in US military muskets. They were finished with hot, real, linseed oil. Lots of these are still around with finish in good shape after two centuries. I have a couple such in my den.

I think the downside of such finishes is that they can hide the grain, at least in walnut. Some manner of resin-varnish-modern finish may be better in this respect. My 19th century John Shuler half-stock rifles were finished, apparently, with some manner of dark varnish. Early 19th century Lancaster powder horns had the base plugs varnished, with red pigment added.

Plastic? A personal matter. Me, I like to use old stuff on my old style weapons.

[Harnic]

I've never tried Teak oil, but have used nothing but Tung oil for at least 25 years & have always been very happy with the results.  It too is thin & penetrates well, leaves a very nice gloss finish without the shine plastic finishes have.  It seems to stand up exceptionally well to weather too.

[54Bucks]

 This thread is not about Boiled Linseed Oil,turpentine, or art. Some of you guys expect your opinions to be equated to gospel. Try respecting the opinions of other as well as reading the subject title. Teak Oil has a very long history of useage. If half the effort of some BLO concoctions,undocumented except for the present period opinions, were used with pure Teak Oil, the resistance to weather would be surpassed.

[bob in the woods]

Actually, if you read my post, I believe I was respectful.  However , whatever the merits of teak oil, I don't be;ieve that it was used  on American Longrifles of old. So we are again back to contemporary, use what works for you VS historical traditional finishes. Basic info on what many would consider non-tradition finishes is available on most any woodworking sites. If this one leans towards the traditionally used finishes of the old makers, I don't think we should be surprised, especially considering the posted Mission Statement. If the question is, "Can I use it" Sure. " Will it work?" Maybe..I guess so . "Was it used on originals? "  No.

[54Bucks]

 Well Bob I think one should know what they are talking about before determining whether or not a finish is historically traditional. As most modern made Teak Oil products are actually linseed oil based and not a product of teak wood. Perhaps you'de like to try again and define exactly what all contemporary builders are allowed to use that would meet your standards of a "Historically Traditional Period Correct" wood finish. Please include specifically the exact composition,how it is made,what it's made of,and how it is applied. I'm especially interested in how many masterpieces you will exclude because of some type of varnish/resin content. And please include the exact historical period. Some of us may have to strip the Permalyn, TruOil,or Chamber's Oil Finish before the police arrive.       

[bob in the woods]

"Most modern teak oil is linseed oil" ??  OK, so the Penn. longrifle makers of the 1700's used "teak" oil.
Whatever makes you happy.  Jeez  ...I said you should use what you want.  If you want to say that Beck used teak oil, fine with me. I don't care if you don't agree with me, but you obviously can't take me not agreeing with you. Whatever..I'm done.

[Dphariss]

This thread is not about Boiled Linseed Oil,turpentine, or art. Some of you guys expect your opinions to be equated to gospel. Try respecting the opinions of other as well as reading the subject title. Teak Oil has a very long history of useage. If half the effort of some BLO concoctions,undocumented except for the present period opinions, were used with pure Teak Oil, the resistance to weather would be surpassed.

I suspect its a lot easier to document Linseed based finished on American Firearms than Teak oil.
Tung oil is very common today and was used in WW-II to waterproof B-29 runways in China.

Teak was a little hard to come by in Colonial America I suspect but Linseed was common.
Apparently it still is. Check out the MSDS for the "teak oil" advertised here.
http://woodworker.com/pure-tung-oil-mssu-849-209.asp

Then http://www.ehow.com/about_5525448_teak-oil-vs-tung-oil.html

With this excerpt:
"Features

    Teak oil comes from the Teak tree, which grows primarily in southeast Asia. Because teak is a rare and endangered tree in many areas, most products labeled as teak oil are really refined tung oil, so be sure to read labels carefully to see what you're getting. "

And this I thought was really interesting.

"Drawbacks

    Pure teak oil offers very little protection from sun damage and UV rays, so wood can fade or wear over time. It is also too toxic to use in many food-based applications (such as dining tables), and it can be hard to find. Pure teak is expensive and is usually mixed with tung or other additives, which can reduce its level of water-resistance.

Tung oil often poses a problem to allergy sufferers. It is made from tree nuts, which can cause serious health effects in some people. The process of applying tung oil is also very time consuming and can take weeks to apply successfully."

I had been told about the allergy thing from a gunsmith friend long ago (he is allergic to tung) but this is the first I have read.

BTW the making of linseed drying oils is pretty well documented back to at least Roman times IIRC.
I have no problem with people using what ever they want.
Tung oil is actually good stuff. But from a long ways east and today its invariably adulterated and in any case its generally too thin for anything but top coats IMO.

Dan

[bjmac]

Dan, exactly what does IIRC stand for? Sorry if that's a dumb question. Thanks
BJ

[54Bucks]

 I found 21 different possibilities for the abbreviation IIRC. But I still can't understand why a reference to early Roman history and linseed oil dryers has to do with a modern contemporary builder wondering about Teak Oil as a sealer. I think I'll go research the history of shipbuilding. And try to understand why Teak Wood was prized and used.

[rich pierce]

Let's stick to the merits of teak oil versus other finishes, including historical finishes.  Enough inflammatory and personal comments.

We're here because a shared love of the American longrifle, and what goes along with that.

[David R. Watson]

Many years ago I purchased a "New England Target Rifle" from John Bivins made by Joseph Tonk of Boston, MA. Prior to the purchase John stated that the rifle had an original finish that had never completely dried after over 120 years.
John added that he thought that the finish on the rifle was that on several violins he had examined. The rifle was just fine to shoot and gave no indication of being soft until you placed the rifle into a gun case and upon retrieval the egg crate impressions were all over the stock. Over an hour or so they would disappear and you cold not tell they had been there.
According to John the rifle was made around 1858(?). It has a FM with a starter for a sugar loaf bullet. I had Richard Hoch make a Pope style mold and it shot 10 ring accuracy at 100 meters.
Anyone have any idea about the finish? Just curious.

[Dale Halterman]

IIRC = if I remember correctly (IIRC)

Dale H

[bjmac]

Thanks, Dale. I appreciate the info and now I don't feel (quite) so dumb.
BJ

[Acer Saccharum]

Thanks, Dale. I appreciate the info and now I don't feel (quite) so dumb.
BJ

I never knew what IIRC meant, either, and that may be a sign of me getting too old or fuzzy in the ears to speak the lingo. This modern day text-speak is leaving me behind, LOL, IMHO.

Tom

[Pete G.]

The "Teak oil" that you buy today is not oil from a teak tree. It is an oil for finishing the teak trim on a boat. This implies that it should stand up to weather pretty well, but it has to be reapplied about once a month. How it would actually finish out on a gun stock might require some experimentation.
With all of the proven finishes, I would hesitate to use it on a rifle myself.

BTW don't hold a grudge against some guy in Idaho because he doesn't know about teak oil. There are not a whole lot of sailboats up that way.