A conundrum sure 'nuff!

[Rick]

I need some advice.  I sent a stock blank away to have the barrel and ramrod channels milled.  Who did it is not important.  When the blank came back, I discovered the ramrod channel exited into the barrel channel about 3" or so from where it should end normally.  You can see in the pictures where it came out.

I drilled holes through the barrel channel into the ramrod channel and took several measurements so I could get an idea of the angle at which the channel runs thorugh the forearm.   I drew the outline of my lock on the side.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can salvage this?  Thanks in advance ~ Rick

[Roger Fisher]

Read my post on this problem - I got first class answers!

[Rick]

I just read Stophel's reply to your own conundrum, Roger.  By golly, that may work.  It looks as though I may have to make a mortice nearly out to where the channel enters the forearm; it's that severe of an angle.  One of the pictures shows just how so.  Rick

[Michael]

Here goes!!

Is really a problem? When I took Wallaces class this year in Bowling Green,Ky I chose to copy his Schreyer#92. He took it apart on the first day for us to examine and what to my wondering eyes should appear; the ramrod hole broke into the barrel channel in about the same spot!!! I guess George didn't feel the it was enough of a problem that he trashed the stock.

That being said I don't condone faulty workmanship. If you are not happy with the stock send it back for a replacement.

Michael

[David Veith]

It is much better to have them go North than South. Like I did on my first gun. It is now wearing a wear plate.   (In my book not worth losing sleep over.
David Veith

[Long John]

Rick,

Now you know why I prefer to do it myself.  As a hobby gun-builder it is part of the journey.

That being said you have to answer whether the stock blank is worth the struggle to save.  If it has exceptional figure and you have a lot of work into it already the answer is probably yes.  If you can get your money back from the guy that did such a funky job then the answer might be no.

If I had to salvage this stock this is how I would do it.  I would mark the outside of the ramrod hole on the inside of the barrel inlet full length and width.  Using chisels I would cut a mortise from the barrel channel down to the depth and width of the ramrod hole as it is supposed to be.  Then I would cut a rectangular piece of stock wood approximately 3/16ths thick, long enough and wide enough to fill the top of the trough I just cut in the bottom of the barrel channel.  Place a well waxed steel rod in the ramrod hole, apply a quality wood glue to the piece of wood and clamp it into the mortice.  As the glue begins to harden rotate the steel rod to ensure that glue is not adhering to the rod.  As the glue is reaching tack strength remove the rod and clamps and allow it to cure a couple of days.  Now the hole can be freshed out with the proper size ramrod drill and you can clean up the barrel channel inletting.

That is how I would do it as it worked for me in the past with a ramrod hole I drilled that went awry.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Well, look at it this way....It will give you ots of room to make the lower forestock nice and slim!!

[Dale Halterman]

Did he stop grilling when it broke through, leaving you with a hole 2-3 inches shorter than it should be? That is what it looks likefrom what you have drawn on the side of the stock.

Dale H

[Dphariss]

Rick,

Now you know why I prefer to do it myself.  As a hobby gun-builder it is part of the journey.

That being said you have to answer whether the stock blank is worth the struggle to save.  If it has exceptional figure and you have a lot of work into it already the answer is probably yes.  If you can get your money back from the guy that did such a funky job then the answer might be no.

If I had to salvage this stock this is how I would do it.  I would mark the outside of the ramrod hole on the inside of the barrel inlet full length and width.  Using chisels I would cut a mortise from the barrel channel down to the depth and width of the ramrod hole as it is supposed to be.  Then I would cut a rectangular piece of stock wood approximately 3/16ths thick, long enough and wide enough to fill the top of the trough I just cut in the bottom of the barrel channel.  Place a well waxed steel rod in the ramrod hole, apply a quality wood glue to the piece of wood and clamp it into the mortice.  As the glue begins to harden rotate the steel rod to ensure that glue is not adhering to the rod.  As the glue is reaching tack strength remove the rod and clamps and allow it to cure a couple of days.  Now the hole can be freshed out with the proper size ramrod drill and you can clean up the barrel channel inletting.

That is how I would do it as it worked for me in the past with a ramrod hole I drilled that went awry.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Good fix.

With a gun drill type hole drill it should be possible to plug it with a hardwood dowel and then re-drill.
Dan

[Dphariss]

The guy that did the hole should make it right. In fact he should have fixed it before he set it to you. It got paid for work he did not properly complete.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

So, it's not perfect.  Big hairy deal.  Long John's fix is how I would proceed and it would not worry me in the slightest.  I think we put too much worry into perfection.  This is you opportunity to make the rod hole exactly as you want it.  I'd make it less than 3/8" too if it were mine too.  I'd like to see you persevere and come out on top.  You'll get more satisfaction from overcoming this minor shortfall, than chucking it and starting over, not to mention the $ saving.  I would anyway.

[Rick]

Thanks for the advice.  I appreciate it.  I have no intention of discarding the blank.  It's a very nicely figured piece of maple, albeit Red.  The hole came out square in the barrel channel so I will hog it out to where it needs to go and proceed as instructed.  I'll let you know how I make out.  Rick

[jerrywh]

I would do it like Dphariss suggests. You have to learn sometime. From now on you should do it yourself. When us old timers came up nobody did it for you. That is how we learned it. We had to.
  Besides when your done you will love the gun a lot more and yourself also.

[rich pierce]

Another way is to go ahead and gouge out the deeper channel and place a spoon-shaped spring pressing down from the barrel channel onto the ramrod.  That pushes ithe ramrod under the front lockbolt and the spring acts as a ramrod retainer spring too.  I use a little staple (red arrowhead) to keep it pressing down.  I don't know why I put those white arrowheads in there.  You can pretty much ignore them.  This method may not look as slick but it offers some advantages.  You can always get your ramrod out; it'll never get stuck permanently, and it is never too loose, either.



It is hard at first to get over these building roadblocks but after a while, we come to expect things to go wrong now and then and need fixing.  Convincing the customer is sometimes an issue.

[Stophel]

I just read Stophel's reply to your own conundrum, Roger.  By golly, that may work.  It looks as though I may have to make a mortice nearly out to where the channel enters the forearm; it's that severe of an angle.  One of the pictures shows just how so.  Rick

That's how I did them before I FINALLY got the hang of drilling ramrod holes (and how I would still do them if I screwed one up!).  Cut down from the barrel channel and you can control precisely where the rod goes.  Fill the gap back in on top of the rod, and, if properly done, is "laminated" and theoretically stronger than the wood there was to begin with.  If done neatly enough, it will not even be noticeable with the barrel out of the stock (not that it matters, but I like to get it to "look right" anyway).

I wish I had thought of it a few years earlier, I could have saved a really nice walnut blank I had someone drill for me.

[Long John]

Dan,

I once tried the glue-in-a-dowel-and-redrill approach. When I tried it I discovered that the drill followed the dowel if the dowel is softer than the stock and veered off the dowel if it is harder than the stock.  After two tries I had a whale of a mess so I punted and just cut out a mortice from inside the barrel channel as I described earlier.  Maybe my drill was no good - I don't know.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Pete G.]

I say that if it broke into the barrel channel, so what ? It gives you room to adjust; it doesn't show; it is centered (which can be a big deal if it is not). As far as the folks that say you should do it yourself, OK fine, but if the drill wanders you still get the same results, or worse. I don't see it as a problem. A minor aggravation in that it is not perfect, but again, so what. Use a tapered ramrod, go on with the build, and you will be the only one that knows, and with time, that won't matter either.

[northmn]

You have all kinds of good suggestions.  I used to just groove out the channel and reglue a piece in the bottom of the channel to have it where I wanted it.  Tapering the rod helps.  Its really just an irritation, not a big deal.

DP

[Dphariss]

Dan,

I once tried the glue-in-a-dowel-and-redrill approach. When I tried it I discovered that the drill followed the dowel if the dowel is softer than the stock and veered off the dowel if it is harder than the stock.  After two tries I had a whale of a mess so I punted and just cut out a mortice from inside the barrel channel as I described earlier.  Maybe my drill was no good - I don't know.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

I would not try it unless I had a gun drill type that fit the channel well and was clamped down to light drag on the shaft. Once in very far they simply do not run off, can't at least not easily. The full diameter shaft and the fairly short single straight flute eliminate side cutting.

Anything else may run off all over the place at least in my experience.
Twist bits will cut sideways like an end mill in wood. In fact in a pinch I have used twist bits for this. Though they are petty weak.

The other fix is to cut the channel to the proper place then glue a strip over it.
I would still make the guy that did it eat the thing if possible. Sloppy work is sloppy work.

Dan

[Benedict]

There are alot of good solutions to the problem already listed.  I did not, however, see anyone mention that the groove needs to be checked.  Whenever I had that problem it is because the groove guided the drill wrong.  If the groove is pointed up then redrilling will go back in the same place, so check the groove.

Bruce

[jerrywh]

RichPierce.
  That is a real neat idea on the ram rod retainer spring. It's not PC but it should have been, The old masters never knew everything. After 50 years or more  building muzzle loaders I don't see to many new good ideas. Thanks a lot for sharing. Every little tip means a lot . I intend to add this to my Indian chief trade rifle. Your a valuable asset to the art.

[T*O*F]

That is a real neat idea on the ram rod retainer spring. IAfter 50 years or more  building muzzle loaders I don't see to many new good ideas.

Jerry,
It's not a new idea.  Actually CVA guns had that spring in their guns since they first started making them.

[jerrywh]

TOF.
   Ive never been a CVA fan or owned one but they have thier place and shoot pretty well when they go off.  I guess that is why I never noticed it. Just proves you can learn from anybody. Rich Pierce is still good.

[Bob Rearley]

These are all great solutions that I'll have to store away  for a rainy day.  It is unclear to me Rich if you left the opening  between the ramrod channel and Barrel channel open after you installed the spring or did you cover it somehow?  I have just finished a Chamber's precarve and  as I look back at the experience, I think  I made some kind of mistake in every phase of construction.  In my quest for perfection my first thought was to start over.  Instead, I sought solutions for my screw ups and wound up with what I think is a pretty nice gun.  I think the most important lessons I've learned are how to repair mistakes.  I imagine even the old masters ran into the same problems we do  everyday and knew how to fix their mistakes.  That didn't mean they stopped striving for perfection.
Bob

[flehto]

As far as the front lock bolt...either omit it or fake it. Looks like you have enough web for the bbl lug and a 1/16" pin if the bbl thickness allows a slightly deeper dovetail. Should end up being a nice slim LR......Fred