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Author Topic: Patchbox discussion Peter White  (Read 6446 times)

Online Shreckmeister

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Patchbox discussion Peter White
« on: July 06, 2011, 11:32:20 PM »
There was by a builder/collector from Bedford that studied this patchbox
extensively and the work of Peter White and he guaranteed the patchbox
to be White's work.  Upon exam of the patchbox by other collectors, it's
been suggested that the patchbox is a Lancaster area patchbox.    
I couldn't find any examples of Lancaster
in the virtual library that remind me of this, but the Figthorn in Reading and
a couple of the York rifles in the library do remind me of this.
I'm interested in the opinion of others.  What I found interesting about this
patchbox was how thin the brass is.  Does the Masonic emblem help in
putting a location to it?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 08:06:37 PM by suzkat »
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Offline lexington1

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 11:47:04 PM »
My uneducated opinion would be that it could well be by Peter White but probably before he set up in Bedford. I also seen similar patchbox designs on C Hawken, J Christ, and probably other Maryland guns.
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Offline rlm

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 01:09:08 AM »
I replied earlier but for some reason it hasn't been posted. IMHO I sure would not rule out Peter White as the maker of this patch box, nor would I guarantee it. Armstrong used a PB finial similar to this one only flipped over, see Kindig (I am not suggesting that it is an Armstrong Patch box). We know that before going to Bedford Co.  White was in Emmitsburg MD for a while. He could have seen and used this design while there. As suggested in the previous post by lexington 1, other MD makers were also using this design. Schreyer, a little earlier  York Co. maker, used it also although his was more robust in size and had a very different engraving style. This patch box does not look at all like the typical daisy design we would associate with Lancaster but it is  not totally unlike a design sometimes used by the Fondersmiths who I believe were borderline York, Lancaster Co in location.
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Offline Buck

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 01:11:11 AM »
Suzkat,
I sat with you at the orientation for the KRA, congrats. The compass by itself is not always significant of Masonic origins, and this wouldn't pinpoint a specific area. Interesting piece. I have a Christian Hawken rifle and it doesn't really have any similarities to that particular patchbox, or any that I have seen. The finial is interesting, maybe a flame with a flower finial?
Good Luck
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Online Shreckmeister

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 03:09:07 AM »
Hey Buck,  Great to hear from you.  That was quite the show eh.  Can't wait to
go again.  Thanks for the input on the patchbox.   Keep in touch.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Buck

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 04:08:50 AM »
Suzkat,
Agreed great show! Overwhelming. Here is something that I noticed about the finial, it looks like a tongue of fire. Take away the 2 side petals and ignore the bottom petal and look at it. That is a Holy symbol, and don't quite understand the 2 crossed objects. These men were very devout in their beliefs, I see some arcane symbology here but that compass could be the sign of a carpenter, Ship Captain, or maybe an explorer or surveyor. That we would all guess is owner significant. The engraving around the screw holes is interesting kind of Armstrongish. Very interesting piece, I look forward to seeing you next year. Thanks for the pictures.
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Offline lexington1

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 04:31:23 AM »
The Hawken I'm referring to is on page 278 of Whisker and Hartzlers 'Maryland Longrifles' book. Similar patchbox style, but the engraving on the Hawken is much finer.
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Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 05:46:38 AM »
It appears to be a Peter White. See Patchboxes II by Whisker and Chandler #411. In my opinion it was not made in Bedford.

Mark Tyler
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Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 03:26:05 PM »
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 03:26:32 PM by Mark Tyler »
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Online Shreckmeister

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 04:14:34 PM »
Mark,   Thanks for looking that up.  I wish I had a copy of that book.
I wonder what happened to the rest of that rifle?
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

realtorone

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 04:35:43 PM »
Isn't 411 the same box?
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 05:35:55 PM »
Betcha somebody "improved/restored" it with a prettier patchbox...................
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Online Shreckmeister

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 06:22:05 PM »
The nerve of them! ;D
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline JTR

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2011, 06:23:47 PM »
Betcha the initiator of the thread is going to tell us all about it..............
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John Robbins

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2011, 06:50:48 PM »
You're right that I like that little suspense thing John, but I really have no idea.  I got it from a collector who said he's had it for 20 years.  Wish I knew the story.  I'll go back and inquire if he knows more.   I'm actually
surprised that it is in fact Peter White because it didn't remind me of any
of the work i've seen.  I need to get that patchbox book.  I just can't
bring myself to pay $300 for one.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Patchbox discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 08:07:50 PM »
suzkat,

Here is a similar style Peter White patchbox (with attached rifle) that sold at auction.
http://collectorebooks.com/jamesauction/kentucky/33783.htm

Patchboxes Vol I has been selling for $150 - $250.
Patchboxes Vol II has been selling for $75 - $100. 

Both books as a set went for $300 at auction this past March.
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=2976&aid=37016&lid=9936510#topoflot

I recommend both books.
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