Teflon patch, true story

[Timberdog]

Been shooting for some years and just
was introduced to Teflon. Almost a year
has passed since that first introduction,
shot some good scores with it using the cap.
Made the transition to flint using the Teflon as well
and just wanted to inspect my patch the other day.
Turns out I had a little burn out, then another club
member noticed i was loading it backwards!!
Dad gave me a thicker patch and after loading
the right way, shot a 163xx in our next match.
 Just a little story to make y'all laugh.
 
 

[plastikosmd]

I started using teflon also, figured the teflon was to ride on the lands/barrel and non-teflon side faced the ball. Hope that is right as it seemed correct!

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

This may be a series of stupid questions. I know what teflon is in a frying pan. But what is it in a round ball patch? Is it something you add to the patch as a lubericant? or is it the patch material itself? and where do you get it?  I've seen it mentioned here several times and never inquired.

[Roger Fisher]

This may be a series of stupid questions. I know what teflon is in a frying pan. But what is it in a round ball patch? Is it something you add to the patch as a lubericant? or is it the patch material itself? and where do you get it?  I've seen it mentioned here several times and never inquired.

It's spritzed on the fabric.  Must wipe tween each shot however.

[Daryl]

The piece I was sent last year, looked like normal 10oz denim - about .022" I think, with a blue/green coating on one side. That is the teflon.

[stone knife]

I dont trust the stuff.

[Frizzen]

They been using it for 40 years at Friendship. I have been using it for just a little over 40 years.

[Ky-Flinter]

I've seen the teflon coated ticking at Friendship, but have never used it.  Just curious....  Do you use any sort of patch lube with it or just the dry teflon patching.  Do you have to wipe more or less often than when using spit or other liquid patch lubes?

-Ron

[Daryl]

It's spritzed on the fabric.  Must wipe tween each shot however.

Ron - as Roger indicates.

[Ky-Flinter]

It's spritzed on the fabric.  Must wipe tween each shot however.

Ron - as Roger indicates.

Thanks Daryl,

I saw Roger's comment and it puzzled me because, as I stated, the teflon patching I have seen was as you described.... heavy cloth or ticking with a dry blue/green coating on one side.  Hence my question about whether lube is required with it or is it used dry.  I had always assumed it was used dry.

So now I'm really confused.  Are there 2 kinds of teflon patching?  One that you buy already applied to the cloth and one that is liquid that you spray/spritz on your patch right before loading, similar to usual patch lubes?

-Ron

[chapmans]

Ron,
  You buy the material already sprayed on it is used dry, as Roger stated you need to wipe with a damp patch between shots, I have shot my best groups using teflon, have been using it for 30+ years. I use .020" Minute Man, I used to use Webb Terry's wish I could find some of his, it was the best I've ever used. There are a couple of different people making it, problem is there are so many kinds of teflon they all may not all be using the same kind, so you may need to try more than one kind to find what works best for you, I would not recommend anything less than .020" remember it's only as good as the material it's sprayed on!
  Hope this helps!
  Steve

[Daryl]

I hesitate to ask this, but isn't there any .010" or .012" for those shooters who use .010" or .005"-under bore size balls?

[Kermit]

This is starting to sound like a whiz-bang of a new batch of puzzlements! Who makes it, what kind of teflon, how thick, how good is the material it's sprayed on, which side faces the ball, what do you wipe with between shots and what happens if you don't? And likely a bunch that have't come up here yet.

Sounds like it's usefull for slow and deliberate competition situations as a group tightener, but a royal pain in a lot of others. Additional question: is this slippery googe bannned in any clubs or types of shoots? And another: as a casual shooter not trying for a score that's a fraction of a nanoparticle tighter than my lifelong range nemisis, why go to the expense and trouble?

Do I sound a wee bit sceptical?

[Greyfeather]

I hesitate to ask this, but isn't there any .010" or .012" for those shooters who use .010" or .005"-under bore size balls?

.015 is available from Tip Curtis and from the Minutemen, possibly others. I like the .023 Wayne Lamson patch material the best.
  To clear up one point, you can sometimes spritz the uncoated side of the material prior to loading. Some feel it helps the material better conform to the ball and grooves easier. Some of the moisture will penetrate the coating under the loading pressures. You will still need to wipe between shots.
John

[Daryl]

Used correctly, there is no burning of the material - it seals - no gas blowby, hense no health problems associated with the burning of the teflon.  Blowby & patch burning happens with thin patches and undersized balls, not with oversized balls and thick patching. Note, Steve suggested at least .020". That is .005" thicker than many can use with undersized balls.

Considering Roger is still using it along with countless other accuracy shooters & have been using it for longer than most of the shooters here have been shooting BP, there seems to be no concrete evidence it is harmful - merely theories of what might happen - if?

I've never used it, but if I did, I'd put the slippery side to the bore so it could lubricate the ball's passage.

The stuff is designed for those who want to use oversized balls & perhaps achieve the very best accuracy they can get from their rifles in a very competitive form of shooting, not for those who don't care to shoot those events.

So far, this type of loading has shown to deliver the best accuracy.
 

[chapmans]

I wet the cloth side slightly when I load. If you don't wipe between shots you can't push the ball down.
  It's not a hassle for me, some places recommend wiping between shots anyway for safety reasons. If you haven't tried it don't, you may get hooked on it! I don't use it in a woodswalk or for hunting, mostly at Friendship it's a confidence thing! If you don't like wiping it's not for you, I would say at the shoots I frequent about 50% use it, at Friendship probably more, on the Bench line I would bet it's used by 100% of the shooters!
 Steve

[Don Steele]

Got mine from  Tip. Works great.
Worked up some good loads with it. As previously noted it shines best if your doing...slow, deliberate, shooting for group.
If I was competing for something REAL serious I have to admit, teflon patching would get the nod.
That said, and ya'll can flame me if you wish....It just don't "feel right" unless your shooting some kind of 21st century wizz-bang muzzle loading rifle. In a traditional rifle, I'm more comfortable seein' what I can do with traditional materials. That might just be me.

[Dave Faletti]

Don I am with you on Teflon.  I find it a bit curious wih some of the posts regarding correct non plastic finishes, historically correct firearms then using a plastic for a patch lube. I personally don't care what someone uses, its still a patched round ball.  No criticisim meant for those that use it, just interesting sometimes where people draw the line on traditional.

[FL-Flintlock]

Don I am with you on Teflon.  I find it a bit curious wih some of the posts regarding correct non plastic finishes, historically correct firearms then using a plastic for a patch lube. I personally don't care what someone uses, its still a patched round ball.  No criticisim meant for those that use it, just interesting sometimes where people draw the line on traditional.

I was just wondering along the same lines myself ... I suppose the colonists obtained their teflon patching from the Teak & Danish oil supplier?   

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Mark!! You Bad! 

[jamesthomas]

 What I've never understood is how you can load an oversized ball in the first place. Seems to me you would have to use a mallet to start the ball at least, and how hard is it to push the ball down to the powder? And do you just run a damp patch down or do you run a WET patch down followed by a couple of dry ones?  this is what I think ya'll mean by wiping between shots.

[Don Steele]

My best groups out of my 50 cal. Green Mountain bbl. come from a tight combination( .500 ball and .018-.020 patching) that loads best if I start it with a special very short(1") starter and mallet, then a normal 6" short starter, then push it home using a smooth single stroke with a 3/8th brass  Range Rod.
If I'm shooting competition, or at the range "shooting for group", I use a damp patch followed by a dry patch between shots. That doesn't clean the bbl,  I'm just trying to maintain a consistent level of fouling and make each load "see" the same conditions in the barrel.

[Daryl]

Sounds good Don.  One must use what works.  That's why I don't wipe at all - any time - I want a consistant condition or one shot, wiped 1 way, by loading the next shot.  Never any buildup - ever.

I don't shoot BR competition - only because we don't have it. I don't even get to shoot chunk because I run the match.

[Don Steele]

Daryl,
It's been my experience with Teflon that you pretty much HAVE TO perform sort sort of wiping routine between shots or you'll not be loading too many.
For anyone else reading this response, I should add that Daryl is correct, and blessed.
With traditional patch/lube combinations, if you're real lucky, or real good...(I'll leave it to you to decide which you are) it is possible to find just the right combination of ball size, patch thickness, lube and powder (type and charge wt.) to enable you to shoot one round after another with no additional wiping.
If such a combo also gives you nice tight groups...you've struck gold.
I've got some that do it, but they're only good for minute of deer, not minute of angle. 

[Daryl]

Don - I realize that if I did use teflon patching, I'd have to wipe, which is why I put in the disclamer about BR shooting in my last post.  I hate wiping while shooting - but I guess I might be able to do it if for some special occasion like BR shooting.

As far as shooting without wiping, I am not an annomoly - some here do exactly the same but are less outspoken about it.  Roger and RoundBall both do this, as do some others - I hardly know them all- Taylor, LB/CB & Crispy - Mike and etc.

Hopefully, as time goes on, more and more who thought they had to wipe to get accuracy, experiment with what we're saying and find they don't  have to be constantly wiping the bore.  Think of it this way, rod strokes wear the bore more than shooting. The more rod strokes, the less barrel life. If you have to use 1 wet, 1 dry then load, you are cutting your barrel life by 2/3rds. 

No one here has to wipe their bore while shooting and we mostly all use a 'standard' combination - .005" under ball with a 10oz denim or heavy mattress ticking patch - .0215" to .023" as we measure them.  The normal fairly stiff batch of white-line denim Taylor uses, I measure same as him, "using his tools" - .022" and .023".  With my measuring tools, that same material runs .019" to .022".