Author Topic: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.  (Read 8189 times)

eljeffo41

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Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« on: July 17, 2011, 12:54:37 AM »
One of my first trips to the range with a flintlock went like this.I have an EXTREMELY heavy .54 cal flintlock well over an inch across the flats. I loaded it with just 60 grains of 2f goex to start with.The rifle flashed in the pan three times in a row,so thinking I forgot the powder I decided to pull the ball.I couldn't get the ball out so here is where I got stupid!I set the gun aside with the ramrod STILL IN THE BORE and went to shoot other guns for awhile.After awhile I said to myself maybe I should try to fire it one more time,so I quickly picked up the gun, primed it and fired it with the ramrod still in the bore!Did I mention I use a brass ramrod?It knocked me down and left a very large mouse under my eye.No harm to the rifle except a few scratches when it landed on the ground.The point is I was chatting with someone the whole time,not paying attention to what I was doing and could have paid a much steeper price!

doug

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 07:59:27 PM »
    with regard to shooting ramrods, there is them that has and them that are going to  :>)  :>)

cheers Doug

tuffy

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 08:32:45 PM »
    with regard to shooting ramrods, there is them that has and them that are going to  :>)  :>)

cheers Doug

Yeah..... and then there's them that lies about it. ;D ::) ;D

Harnic

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 08:57:19 PM »
I've seen many rods fired at targets!  I switched to a stainless steel loading rod early on with a big knob on it that I can't see past when it's in the muzzle...  :o  The wood rod under the barrel is just for looks.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 03:48:06 AM by Harnic »

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 11:25:05 PM »
Wow, thx for the story. It really 'knocked u down'?

blunderbuss

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 06:47:31 AM »

That's why reenactors don't have ramrods in their guns . I almost saw a guy shoot one out of a cannon once but someone stopped him before he touched it off.

Daryl

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 07:08:16 AM »

That's why reenactors don't have ramrods in their guns . I almost saw a guy shoot one out of a cannon once but someone stopped him before he touched it off.

Are you saying they've all shot their rods down range or they aren't allowed a rod because they might?  Without a ramrod, they cannot be period correct - how do they load or do they not shove the paper ctg. down onto the powder? If all they do is to dump the powder into the muzzle then touch it off,  they are not being period correct. The wiping stick must be used to push the ctg. down, then 3 'throws' of the rod are used to seat the ball - this was normal US military loading from what I've read.

Offline Canute Rex

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 07:26:08 AM »
Eljeffo makes a good point about concentration on the firing line. Once an occupation gets familiar there is a tendency to perform it without thinking too hard or to try to multi-task. Conversation is especially distracting. I'm glad he didn't suffer any major injury and I thank him for the reminder.

Having done reenacting, I'll note that the non-authenticity of non-ramming is the price reenactors pay to avoid the authenticity of flowing blood. Sticking a solid object down the bore is just too much risk in that kind of situation.

And, in fact, the 29th Regiment Light Infantry Company (my old unit) was known in the 18th century for using an extremely undersized ball and doing a dump, thump, and whump in tight situations. No rammer involved. Not common practice, though.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 03:46:15 AM »
I have always heard that you were not an experienced BP shooter unless you have
1. loaded a ball with no powder
2. loaded a ball with twice the powder
3. fired a ramrod down range.

Haven't personally fired a ramrod, but my trick seems to be load the rifle, get distracted, load again.  Gives a LOT of recoil and punches two ( not very accurate) holes. Haven't done that for a while so maybe have learned the lesson.

Re-enactors don't use a ramrod out of safety concerns. Not historically correct, but then neither is rising from the dead in time for the evening meal. Last one I saw the French Marines were mowed down with canister from the Brit cannons, but didn't stay down long. Apparently fell into a pile of "Resurrection ants".

leadslinger62

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 05:21:28 AM »
  Distraction has caused many errors in shooting Black Powder. I try and step back, when loading for the next shot, from the other Shooters when doing a Trail or Mountain Man course. Also, when taking Shooters around and keeping score I try to keep my Yap shut!!

blunderbuss

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 11:33:13 PM »

That's why reenactors don't have ramrods in their guns . I almost saw a guy shoot one out of a cannon once but someone stopped him before he touched it off.

Are you saying they've all shot their rods down range or they aren't allowed a rod because they might?  Without a ramrod, they cannot be period correct - how do they load or do they not shove the paper ctg. down onto the powder? If all they do is to dump the powder into the muzzle then touch it off,  they are not being period correct. The wiping stick must be used to push the ctg. down, then 3 'throws' of the rod are used to seat the ball - this was normal US military loading from what I've read.
Period correct or not some guy in the excitement would forget to withdraw the rod and someone would get shot. Some re enactments will allow the ramrods in the weapons but not to be pulled out. A fellow in Colorado awhile back got killed because the fellow who shot him withdrew his rod sure enough but the brass end slipped off in the bore.

Offline Glenn

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 12:20:45 AM »
I've seen many rods fired at targets!  I switched to a stainless steel loading rod early on with a big knob on it that I can't see past when it's in the muzzle...  :o  The wood rod under the barrel is just for looks.

That's what I've been doing for a while now.  I leave the wood rod in the rod channel or I use the brass rod in the deer stand in place of the wooden piece.
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Daryl

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 12:34:01 AM »

That's why reenactors don't have ramrods in their guns . I almost saw a guy shoot one out of a cannon once but someone stopped him before he touched it off.

Are you saying they've all shot their rods down range or they aren't allowed a rod because they might?  Without a ramrod, they cannot be period correct - how do they load or do they not shove the paper ctg. down onto the powder? If all they do is to dump the powder into the muzzle then touch it off,  they are not being period correct. The wiping stick must be used to push the ctg. down, then 3 'throws' of the rod are used to seat the ball - this was normal US military loading from what I've read.
Period correct or not some guy in the excitement would forget to withdraw the rod and someone would get shot. Some re enactments will allow the ramrods in the weapons but not to be pulled out. A fellow in Colorado awhile back got killed because the fellow who shot him withdrew his rod sure enough but the brass end slipped off in the bore.

Hadn't thought of it, but I guess they do shoot at each or towards each other - not my sport & shouldn't be allowed - can't imagine anyone doing that - I don't have that much faith in people I DON'T know. As far as seeing a rod go downrange - it's fun to watch.

Offline Glenn

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 12:54:33 AM »
What "seating of the ball" is going on during reenactments ... ???  There should be NO SHOT WHATSOEVER even near those firearms during reenactments.

The reenactments Blunderbuss is speaking of normally takes place with LOTS of children in attendance.  We don't want any mistakes whatsoever.  Such a disaster, especially in front of children, may cause them to grow up with images of history and firearms contrary to what we traditionally want them to grow up with in Texas.

Children (mostly young teenagers) often participate with the reenactment groups during demonstrations.  Our methods are effective; we've got trained young teenagers even that we can leave in charge of a battery (full-scale canons) and know they are responsible and competent enough to handle the responsibility.  We educate them YOUNG; and this pays off.

Although period correctness is important, we'd rather force the children to ask; "Why are Yall's ramrods removed", and there you've got the instant beginnings of a firearms safety lesson with a child.  This of course is more important to us than being period-correct.  We simply explain that a ramrod does belong in the ramrod groove however has been removed for reenactment safety.  This in turn often brings the lesson of how muzzleloaders are different from other firearms, their unique safety issues, etc., and leave their young minds with the impression that even "grown-ups" always put firearm safety first.  Loading rods (ramrods) are kept in the tents where the charges are loaded for the next demonstration.

I do see the point on that issue too.  Personally, if I was to do reenactments, I would dedicate a firearm specifically to that purpose alone and pin the ramrod in to the barrel channel.  It would simply never be removed and/or used to load the blank powder charge down the barrel.  I would do that with another loading rod that I wouldn't carry around during the demonstration/reenactment scenes.
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Daryl

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 04:13:21 AM »
What "seating of the ball" is going on during reenactments ... ???  There should be NO SHOT WHATSOEVER even near those firearms during reenactments.

I was referring to what I imagined might be the  'act' of normally seating the ball - in reinactment - perhaps seating the paper of the paper ctg?  I've never seen a reinactment.  I merley figured they'd try to look as if they were doing it right - that is why I asked the question.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 04:14:00 AM by Daryl »

Offline Glenn

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2011, 06:56:55 AM »
What "seating of the ball" is going on during reenactments ... ???  There should be NO SHOT WHATSOEVER even near those firearms during reenactments.

I was referring to what I imagined might be the  'act' of normally seating the ball - in reenactment - perhaps seating the paper of the paper ctg?  I've never seen a reenactment.  I merley figured they'd try to look as if they were doing it right - that is why I asked the question.

Actually they fire a good amount of powder but they use some sort of paper wads.  Not exactly the same but still give a little noise and thrill.   ;D  Blunderbuss has been active in it a long time.  He can tell you more about what his unit actually uses.

I've heard of some of the Civil War reenactors using some sort of "powder cartridge" that uses talcum powder to enhance the projection of the smoke but I don't know if this is true nor what these things look like.

I think here locally for the San Jacinto reenactment it costs about $20 each time they fire the cannon and there is 2 of them but I think maybe the State pays for that.  It gives a nice little bang but I'm sure a full charge pushing a canon ball or a good load of grape would have a different result.

Regardless, if you're ever down here in April you might want to hang out for San Jacinto Day.  It's a good bit of fun for everybody. ;D
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Daryl

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Re: Doing dumb things and getting away with it.
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2011, 07:22:04 PM »
Any sort of paper wad has to be seated with a rod - it will not fall down the tube of it's own accord.