Author Topic: Lock Panels Characteristics  (Read 6297 times)

Rasch Chronicles

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Lock Panels Characteristics
« on: July 25, 2011, 12:30:41 PM »
Hello everyone!

I was giving some thought to the proportions/aestetics of the lock panels.

I have noticed as I look over the hundreds of examples here on ALR, the difference between the panels, and how some seem more refined, more delicate (delicate as in proportions not strength), than others. I have also noted that some panels definitly make the lock section either appear "chunky" or enhance the appearence of sleek or svelte.

My question is, leaving aside the positionng of the lock with respect to the wrist etc, is there a minimum panel size? Is there a minimum reveal that should be adhered to? Can you use dividers to define yor panel width leaving the ends to be stylized?

I'm ordering a chunk of black walnut and a JC Siler lock for the purpose of practicing inletting and panel sizing. I might as well do something constructive while I am here... The real trick will be getting the tools here...

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
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Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2011, 01:07:24 PM »
For my first build I am studying early Moravian rifles and I see lock panels that are both "chunky" and "delicate" within that style.  I prefer the delicate look and that is what I tried to achieve on mine.  I hope I was able to achieve that.  We will see in the finished shaping. 

Some time back you posted about must have tools for lock inletting.  Based on the replies I ordered my tools for it and also practiced on blanks.  I inlet my lock plate about three times before doing it on the actual stock.  I am very pleased with my lock plate inlet. 

I just wish I had practiced inletting the entry pipe as well.

Coryjoe

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 03:39:41 PM »
Coryjoe,

I ordered a piece of 5/32  O1 steel to make a set of inletting chisels and scrapers when I get home for R&R. Hopefully I'll have time to make them. I also picked up a couple of locks and they're waiting for me too. All I need to do now is get a piece of walnut, and another of maple and get to practicing.

Even though my Chamber's NE Fowler is precarved, I know I will be scratch building in the future, and I really need to get comfortable and proficient with not only lock setting, but triggers and everything else too. I've also started to stock up on stock blanks so that I will have the majority of the parts by the time I get home permanently.

Thanks again for your comment!
Albert

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 05:20:33 PM »
I'm no expert Albert, but it really seems to vary from style to style and maker to maker. I tend to like the look of a long lean panel with small reveals around the lock itself.  A lot of it has to do with the style though, at least to my eye. Those "fattish" panels that some of the  southern rifle have look right on that particular type of rifle but they would look way off on something else.

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 09:24:18 PM »
Can you use dividers to define yor panel width leaving the ends to be stylized?

Albert,

That is what I do for the top and bottom outline.  I use a compass, pointer on one side, pencil on the other.  Once the lockplate is inletted, remove it and the side of the pointer rides against the inside vertical surface of the inlet.  Adjust the pencil length to contact the lock panel surface at your desired width.

I do not follow the above lines/widths on the ends of the lock.  I elongate them until they look "right".

-Ron
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 09:25:12 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 07:42:26 AM »
Ky-Flinter,

That's what I had in mind. I have purchased I don't know how many sets of dividers through eBay, and I thought of custom grinding one leg to ride on the inside of the lock mortice, and shorten the other leg and grind it into a cutting edge.

I had another question which slipped my mind; how deep should the panels be? I'm thinking that it all depends on the barrel and lock geometry.

Anyway, thanks for the comment and idea!

Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 07:03:40 PM »
Hi Albert,
Lock panels are critical features that if done poorly, severely compromise the appeal of a gun regardless of how well other features are done.  The challenge is to merge the rounded forearm and wrist with the flat sides of the lock area.  Some makers carry the curves through the lock area very well and the panels almost look like they were glued to a round handle.  That is easier to accomplish if the panel molding around the lock is very narrow (1/16"-1/8").  Other makers have wider panels and create a boxier look but often that is still very attractive if done well.  For example, look at many of the better made 19th century southern guns.   There are no hard and fast rules except that I would say any panels with >3/16" of flat surface showing above or below the lock will be hard to make look appealing.  Generally, late 17th century and early 18th century flintlock guns had very narrow moldings around the lockplate.  In some cases, there was no flat surface at all.  That was the popular fashion and I think it nicely graced the round-faced locks often used at the time.  There are always exceptions.  I saw a beautiful pair of Piraube pistols made in 1690 with flat lockplates and wider moldings.  Nonetheless, narrow panels were the norm.  That seemed to change in the late 18th century and into the 19th.  Wider panels, but still attractive, became the norm, along with almost universal use of flat lockplates.  You can really see the changes in fashion by looking at British dueling and coach pistols through the 18th century. 

dave
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Leatherbelly

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 08:03:16 PM »
  Albert,
   If you have time, go to Mike Brooks site and check out his Officers Fusil. I think it's one he didn't "age". Check out the lock panels,engraving and carving on this baby! Gosh I love Mike's work! I just gotta talk him into taking the cleats off his tractor when he runs over them! LOL  ;D :o No offense Mike, I really love your "new" look!

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 08:18:46 PM »
Dave,

I'm curious about the 1690 Piraube pistols with flat faced locks you mentioned.  It's my understanding that the earliest Beriane style flat faced locks to appear are a pair shown by Lenk (plate 85) and discussed on page 110.  These are dated 1696.  The next earliest date for a flat faced lock in the Beraine style are on a pair of pistols, formerly in the Clay P. Bedford collection, dated 1697.  These were showsn by Gusler in Decorated Firearms page 34.  He discusses these in relation the the newly emerging Berain style and their respective place. 

If examples earlier than those mentioned above have emerged I would love to hear more about them.  A date of 1690 seems quite early to me, but I guess you never know. 

Thanks,
Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 08:58:57 PM »
Hi Jim,
I should have said 1690's.  I was being a bit sloppy with the date simply because I don't have the reference with me anymore so could not cite an exact date.  The pistol I was thinking about could well have been made during 1696-1699.

dave
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 10:37:19 PM »
Thanks for the response Dave.

Jim

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 06:48:32 AM »
Gents,

Thanks for all the replies.

Dave, your descriptions make a lot of sense, and I've copied it to my notes on building. (I've been copying alot of stuff into a builder's reference for later!)

Best regards,
Albert “Yes, I am still in Afghanistan!” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 02:23:38 PM »
If you are copying an original gun, or working in a certain 'school', you'll know what panels you need before you start removing wood.

Lock panels are all over the map as far as size and width of flat. The flat does not have to be even width all the way around the lock. It oft looks better with thin exposure top and bottom, with a longer tapering flat at each end.

This gun has very little of what you might call 'panels'. More like a lock surround. The rounded edges of the 'panels' add to the softness and flow of the wrist-to-forearm transition.


Below is from a 'Contract rifle', ca 1792. Panels all the way around the lock. Probably well defined when the gun was new, as they are still in good shape. Note the panels are not even width all the way around.

The panel can be used as a 'middle ground', an area that can be used to make the shape of the lock fit better with the curvature of the stock. You can make the tail of the panel follow the curve of the stock, even if the lock plate does not have quite enough curve to it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 02:34:29 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 07:26:17 PM »
Hi Acer,
Great points! Variation in the thickness of lock panels can really make a gun look organic with everything working together.  That also applies to some extent to symmetry of the lock and sideplate panels.  Seventeenth and 18th century makers were not slaves to the idea that both sides had to be exactly the same.  Your Jaeger or transistional long rifle has lock panels that look almost perfect and right out of the mid 1700s.  It also demonstrates very nicely how you can carry the curved shapes of the forearm and wrist through the lock area when using narrow moldings.

dave  
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:31:06 PM by smart dog »
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Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Lock Panels Characteristics
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 06:06:49 AM »
Gents,

I first came to notice the differences in panels when looking at Southern Mountain Rifles, and Tennessee rifles in particular. I really like the Tennessee architecture, and while looking over several original Tennessee rifles, I found different renderings of panels. The problem was that while some looked really "smooth," "svelte," or "flowing," others were off to my eye. It took me a while, but I finally came to realize that the angle that the lock and panel lay in relation to the wrist, in addition to the panel design/architecture was what was catching my eye in a positive or negative way. Believe you me, it took me a while to figure out what it was that was catching my eye.

What I found, was that the rifles I found most aesthetically pleasing were the ones were the panels were more refined and the wrist's curves flowed through the triggerguard and onward to the forearm. I also realized that wood isn't metal, and can only be worked so far. So now that my eye is being educated (Through the efforts of many of you!) I can see in many cases what the stock itself allowed.

It really helps to have all of you join in these convesations, and help educate me on these subjects!

Best regards,
Albert “Yes, I am still in Afghanistan!” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
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