Author Topic: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler  (Read 11319 times)

LURCHWV@BJS

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Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« on: August 02, 2011, 07:22:30 PM »
My ignorance is about to show again.  Aside from different stock style,  are the barrels pretty much the same?  In regards to shooting either roundball or shot.  I really have no clue on this matter and would love to know


Rich   

Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 10:44:42 PM »
The simple quick and dirty answer is:

Smoothbore- any gun without rifling - could be a smooth bored rifle, musket or         
                      fowler.
Musket- Military smoothbore or later with rifled barrel. Shoots round ball, buck and
              ball, or Minie' bullet if rifled.
Fowler- Smoothbore with thin barrel to shoot bird shot. Usually no finger rail or
             cheek piece.

There are many nuisances and much room for argument.

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 11:10:57 PM »
Thanks Nate,

Works for me


Rich

Daryl

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 12:53:26 AM »
looks good to me - more consise than the dribble I pounded out then deleted.


Offline volatpluvia

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 04:30:17 AM »
Sorry Nate,
What is a finger rail?
volatpluvia
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Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 05:14:19 AM »
The finger rail is the raised bar extending from the rear of the trigger guard of a rifle- built gun usually ending in a curl before going back into the wood.  A fowler or musket seldom has this feature.

Daryl

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 04:52:05 PM »
In regards your question on shooting ball or shot, like gauges use virtually identical balls and patches, shot and wads.

Shotguns (fowlers) were popular in the mid 1800's for hunting in Africa and India for dangerous game. Notably, 16 bore was considered the smallest of the useable sizes.

Francis Selous used a pair of Dutch 4 bore fowlers, that had the barrels cut back to about 24" or 26". These were used for Elephant etc, in Africa.

northmn

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 04:54:58 PM »
About all I might add is that the musket had adaptions for bayonets.  The Bess I had used the bayonet lug as a front sight.  I mention this because bayonets were a primary weapon when the smoothbore musket was used.   There were also critters called smooth rifles, which were guns built like a rifle with a heavier barrel and sights.  Quite commonly they seemed to be smaller bores.
To confuse the issue more, you had terms like fuke, fusee and fusil which seemed to refer to lighter weapons.  For instance, is a Northwest trade gun a fowler ???  Referred to in literature as a as a fuke or fusee.  Lightweight officers muskets were commonly referred to a fusils.  
Nothing wrong with what Nate says, just that termonologies over the years get interesting.  For instance they had short rifles and carbines ::)

DP

Daryl

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 05:38:58 PM »
And Military Carbines with literally shortened musket barrels, but not called muskets - that name reserved for full length weapons.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 06:03:03 PM »
And more gray come in when many 18th century Germanic fowling pieces had grip rails and winged rear sights on the barrel.
You could also have matching English guns with the same hardware, etc. and one would be a fusee and one a fowling piece due to the fusee having a cylinder bore and the fowling piece having a relieved muzzle and roughened breech or a relieved muzzle and breech.

Daryl

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 01:13:11 AM »
Forsyth covers some different fowler designs that were meant for shooting ball as well a shot, with various choking, breech or middle, how much and their shooting qualities. Manton's fowlers were noted for their ability to handle both ball and shot well, whereas some did not do well. Forsyth mainly spoke of double barreled guns, but also larger bored singles.

LURCHWV@BJS

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 01:29:05 AM »
Gentlemen,

   Thank you all for being most informative.  I'm looking way way down the road for future builds.  Didn't want to use the wrong lingo and plan a direction.

Again   thank you

   Rich

Offline volatpluvia

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 06:38:20 AM »
Thanks Nate,
I should have figured that one out.  I promise to try to remember it for next time.  Now where did they hide the post button...where is my oxygen bottle...
volatpluvia
I believe, therefore I speak.  Apostle Paul.

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 10:52:31 AM »
And a Fowler could be a Musket if the forend was cut back enough to accomadate a bayonet!

I'm gonna do that to my fowler. Seems right for a guy like me. And since I only get one shot, and when I hunt things have been known to degenerate into hand to hand combat, (Feral Bull Fighting: Another Chronicles Adventure!), a big long bayonet might come in handy!

Best regards,
Albert “The Afghan” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
Feral Bull Fighting: Another Chronicles Adventure!

Offline hanshi

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 06:49:32 PM »
Ignorance is just the fact of not knowing something and is temporary.  It's not like "stupid" which is forever.

I'm not educated in this subject to any real degree but have always thought of a musket as a smoothbore (in general) and more likely military in character.  My smoothbore is a civilian type gun but I still call it a "musket".  Keeps things simple, kinda like referring to all firearms as "guns".
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 05:38:07 PM by Daryl »
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BrownBear

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 08:05:53 PM »
Anyone have a clue about the derivation of the term "musket?' 

northmn

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2011, 06:12:11 PM »
In a reference to the dictionary of Etymology Wikipedia stated that the term musket may have come from the French Mosquette, which is a sparrow hawk as guns were often named after animals.  Another close term is Moshetto, Italian for little fly which described a cross bow bolt.  In early use both were used side by side.  Arab/Persian term Mustaqah which may be related.
Sounds as plausable as any theory.

DP
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:19:29 PM by Dpeck »

BrownBear

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2011, 06:16:35 PM »
Sounds as plausable as any theory.

Yes, and thanks for checking.  My mind was running toward names of earlier firearms, and not finding the connections.

blunderbuss

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 10:30:32 PM »

 Don't let ignorance stop you it never stopped any of us

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 06:44:51 AM »
Are there any old references to the use of the term "smooth rifle"? Or is this a modern day term?

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 04:39:29 PM »
Are there any old references to the use of the term "smooth rifle"? Or is this a modern day term?

Good question.
Its mentioned once by L. Reedy in Kindig's book as his make a "smooth rifle". We really don't know what Reedy meant could have been an uncarved (thus smooth) rifle. (?)
Its possible they were known as rifle stocked guns in the late  1750s.
"4 ft square [octagonal, a common mistake] barrel'd Guns, very small Bores...stock'd like Rifhells..."
This appears in an inventory from this period in DeWitt Bailey's "British Military Flintlock Rifles" pg 76.
 
Dan 
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Daryl

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 05:27:16 PM »
Smoothrifles are mentioned in the "Firearms of the American West 1803-1865" a number of times in gun orders sent back East from the West- so it's pre-ctg. era term for sure.  It is used along with orders for rifles in the same order.  How far back to 1803 it goes or prior to that, I don't know.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 05:29:20 PM by Daryl »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Smoothbore,Muskets and Fowler
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2011, 05:28:49 PM »
Thanks for that reply Dan, now that you mention that I do remember seeing the reference to rifle stocked guns befor.   Smylee