Air powered graver

[Dave Waters]

Do any of you use powered gravers. If so what kind?

I just ordered a Lindsay Artisan and wondered how you gents think

Dave

[Captchee]

 i started out with a gravermax .  dint have it long .
a couple years ago i won a Lendsey Clasic graver  and i simply love it .

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
I use a Lindsay Classic Airgraver and would not change it for anything except a Lindsay Palm control Airgraver.  A lot of world class engravers like Roland Baptiste and Phil Coggan use Steve's tools.

dave

[Ed Wenger]

Dave,

Its going to be the best investment you've made in a long while.....  I wouldn't part with mine for the world.


              Ed

[welafong1]

just my two cents by the time you buy all of his stuff its about $1500.00 that's to high for me there was a post by some guy that showed how to make one  but its not there any more so i will have to Waite until the post comes back or some one come along with a posting showing how to make one or the Chinese come up with one it looks like a nice machine  Lindsay has but i don't think i will ever have one
thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

[Acer Saccharum]

There ain't nothing like the real deal. I have a GRS GraverMach and I like it very much, and it uses a foot pedal. However, it's hard to move around the work while standing and using a footpedal. GRS makes an 'AirTact' attachment that makes it a one-handed operation, no footpedal required. I don't have that. Yet.

I have tried the Lindsay and that is probably THE tool to get if you can afford it. I recommend the Lindsay for the longrifle, especially of you are engraving the parts while in the stock. You have complete freedom to walk around the work, no footpedal required.


If you can't afford the equipment, then wait. Save your money until you CAN afford it. Both systems are miraculous. I think with a Chines copy, you will get a taste of how useful a tool like this is, but it won't perform. You will end up buying a Lindsay or GraverMach anyway.

That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it!

[Dave Waters]

Richard, the total on the Artisan ($595). I started with the bare bones. I opted for the foot control and basic air supply parts ($179) and the basic Lindsay graver sharpener ($89). I'll supply the regulator / filter. I've got some diamond bench stones that I think I can get by with. Now, as I get coin, I'll add the bells and whistles.

Im excited for it to come in the mail.    I had saved up my penny's and negotiated with my sweet wife to rob the buget for the rest to get it.

Some one please jump in and tell me if I've started with the right stuff for a poor man.

Dave

[welafong1]

hi Dave
 tell me how much is the air compresser going to cost you?
 Richard  Westerfield

[Dave Waters]

Richard, I already had an air compressor.

You can get a compressor from Harbor Freight for $59.99 I just checked here
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=air+compressor

Here is the Lindsay on line catalog
http://www.airgraver.com/Hand_Engraving_Tools_Overview.htm

The Lindsay gravers use a very small amount of air so they say. Others here can tell you more.

Hope this helps

Dave

[welafong1]

Dave thank you
 i hope others will help me in making choices like what type of air compressor should i get and any way i can save money things are a Little tight right now there is a little light at the end of the tunnel who knows i might be able to pull this off
thank you
Richard Westerfield

[Ron Scott]

I have a Lindsay PC and regard it as one of my best loved tools.  It paid for itself on my most recent project.  One of the nice features of the Lindsay tools is the variety of air sources that you can use: compressor, paint ball tank, Co2 pellet canister and Scuba tank. These make for a very portable setup.

[welafong1]

hi Ron
thank you for setting me straight on the compresser
what i would like to know is do i have to have a foot control cant i just plug it to the compresser and go? hear is my problem i had a stroke and my right leg is shot not that i cant use it i am able walk on it that's about all the left leg is OK i think a straight set up to the compresser is the best way to go what about the regulator what size do i use ? sorry if i am asking a lot of questions but i don't know jack about this subject is ther any thing i forgot to ask?
thank you for your ear
Richard Westerfield

[Captchee]

IMO  If you want the real deal then  its  chase or push  graving .
 or if you want Pneumatic then  Steves  fathers original design  out dates that of GRS , is the same size  and  oddly enough works much the same way .

 Some years  back I lost a lot of my ability to hold a chase graver unless it had a very big handle on it .
So I bought a GRS  thinking it would  solve my issue .  But it didn’t . after a couple hours  the joints in my hand  would hurt for days . So I sold it .
  Granted that was some 10 years ago and  maybe GRS has changed things since .
When I got my Lindsey classic , I was very please right from the package .
 It cuts like a dream , very little to no vibration . No springs to mess with . No needed extra box.
 I had been considering buying a classic but the price made me concerned .
 When I won  the  contest I was elated   but told steve that if it didn’t work for me I would give it to a  person of his choosing. 
  I bought the  foot peddle ,  sharpening system  “to  give that a try “.
 When the package came in the mail  I honestly thought Seriously  he wants how much for this . But  once I fired her up  I can tell you that IMO its worth every last Penney. In fact probably more .
 The only real complaint I had was that it used an over sized  graver blank . But steve has since  made an adaptor so you can us the smaller more  common and much  cheaper  blanks .  But for as long as the bigger blanks last . I have not found a need to buy that adaptor .

 For 12.00 you can by a  regulator with  water trap  vs. using those Steve sells   My Baush  air brush compressor OR my shop compressor , runs the  graver  with  more then enough power to  cut  Benelli barrels  like a dream  even with the standard piston .  Currently im building me a silent  compressor  out of one of my smaller shop tanks by changing out the  motor for a frig compressor . This will give way more then enough air  to run the Lindsey and  no noise

you also can switch to a C02 set up . The Lindsey uses so little air that  even a small paint gun tank  lasts me a couple days even  under steady use .
 I can  once again spend most all day engraving  without any pain .
 
 My only problem is that after the GRS experience I sold all my engraving equipment thinking  that engraving for me was over .
 So now im having to rebuild my  tools .
  For me  im 100% in favor of the Steves system . I just cant recommend it enough


 For the regulator  mine goes from 10-120 PSI . but I run my Lindsey Classic at around 25 to 65 PSI . most commonly 25 as that’s what  my little airbrush compressor will regulate up to .  But its also not one of the cheep  airbrush compressors so  others experience may very

 But unless im engraving something very hard . I set it at 25lbs and forget it
As to the foot peddle .  If you can run a gas peddle on a car , you should be able to use the foot  control for the Lindsey .
 It  gives you full control over the piston . You cant just plug it in or  you will override the idle control. You need  either the foot or palm control ..
 When you get  the system , just set you idle , set you pressure , adjust the  port cullet for what  engraving your going to do  and go to a practice plate

[T*O*F]

When I took my engraving class, I had the opportunity to try all the various models offered by Lindsay and GRS, including both foot and palm control.  The Lindsay's cut as though moving thru butter, but they were like driving a dragster.  Point and hang on.  I couldn't keep up with it....it acted like it had a mind of its own.  This was especially evident finishing the curl on scrolls.  I couldn't turn the engraver's ball fast enough to keep up.  I'm sure there is a learning curve associated with using one...as it was my first experience.  But it cut hands above any of the GRS models.

As for compressors, one should use one of the oiless models.  Keeping moisture and oil from a regular compressor requires numerous filters and regulators.  Both oil and water will doom your tool.  I"ve got a 5hp Ingersol with an 80 gallon tank, 2 inline water and oil separators and a final filter on the machine, and I still get slugs of water during hot humid days.  It condenses in the air lines and comes thru all at once, so I still need to run overhead, slanted lines which direct the condensation back toward the compressor.

[welafong1]

thank you t.o.f.
you still have to use the foot pedal ? whats purpose of the foot pedal? like i said i don't know jack about this subject forget the palm controller there is no way i could use that and carve at the same time.if the controller was in the carver it self that might work
thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

[rich pierce]

Dave,

Its going to be the best investment you've made in a long while.....  I wouldn't part with mine for the world.


              Ed

The secret is out!   

[welafong1]

how am i to take that [The secret is out!] ?
richard westerfield

[Captchee]

thank you t.o.f.
you still have to use the foot pedal ? whats purpose of the foot pedal? like i said i don't know jack about this subject forget the palm controller there is no way i could use that and carve at the same time.if the controller was in the carver it self that might work
thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

 The foot control acts  much like a gas peddle . The  more you push down the faster the hammer runs. Thus you can regulate the speed .
 Just like a car , if you slam the peddle to the floor , it takes off .
 Same with the Lindsey .
IE idle , now speed  to the cut . It just sets there humming away .
Set your graver and apply the gas . She starts to cut .
 Without the peddle or palm control  your at a given speed all the time  with no way to control it

[T*O*F]

Richard,
To be frank, given your condition, I think you are pursuing a pipe dream.
First, you can get into push or hammer engraving on the cheap, but not pnuematic.  If you already have a compressor, then you might be able to get by with it if it meets specs. 

There are other accessories which are essential.
1.  Stones or diamond wheels for sharpening.  You can grind you blanks with stones, but it takes forever.  Diamond wheels are quick, but expensive and you need either a dedicated sharpener as sold by either company, or wheels mounted on mandrels used on your drill press.  $150-$400

2.  Templates or a fixture which allow repeatable point profiles.  $100-$250

3.  An engravers vise ($350-$850) which holds your work and allows you to rotate you work as you engrave.  Pnuematic engravers work like a lathe.  The graver is stationary and you turn you work into it.  However, you can use one of these because of your condition which would require holding the graver with one hand and operating the vise with the other.  Since you only have one good hand, this restricts you to a graver with palm control that can be operated with one hand.  Palm controls are offered by both companies, but are 3 times (or more) the price of a foot control, which you cannot use because:

4. Since you can't use the engraver's vise, you need a potter's wheel setup.  These work by turning them with you feet, which again leaves out the foot control engraver.  Can you control a potter's wheel with your feet?  You will have to construct the potter's wheel yourself but you can use an inexpensive milling machine vise in lieu of the above engraver's vise.

Still, it will cost you several thousand dollars to get into pnuematic engraving.  Will your investment pay for itself.  You can't just start engraving.  If you plan to do it for money, then you will definitely needs classes which will teach you the basics of your equipment, pattern design and transfer, how to sharpen, how to cut, and 5 dozen other basic things.  One class will cut 5 years off your learning curve, but they are expensive too.

Hundreds of people spend huge amounts of money every year and end up selling it on ebay because of the reasons above.

[Captchee]

  it all depends on the level of engraving your doing .
 but you do need 2 hands  and like T.O.F said  unless your going to be using the graver alot , you probably not going to reap  enough benefit for the investment.

 Do you need all the tools of the trade like a vice and such  .  It sure does help the quality of ones work .
 you will need 2 hands   or at least some way of turning  your work . not real hard to come up with ideas for that  
 you can use the Lindsey as a walk around . just  like a chase graver . but its  more dificult to  do and not well suited  for that  process

 Here is a piece of aluminum from an old lawn chair that I did , impromptu one night at a shoot while drunker then a 2 packerd Billy goat  .
 A  group of us were setting around   and I got into this discussing  with a GRS guy .
 So when I ask  where his graver was , he said  at home in the shop .
 Mine was in the camper .
 I chopper of the end of a piece of fire wood  as a turn table and  screwed down the plate. Crude at best but it still worked  .
 No vice , no compressor , no scope .. Ran it off of Co2
 Only sharpener  was Lindsey’s  universal template  and a set of stones .

Could I have done better at home , with  the proper tools . You dam Skippy . but the point is  that engraving can be done with out all that .
 but keep in mind that just as T.O.F stated , you dont just deside to engrave . like all things you learn . its not as simple as just  tracing drawn lines . good tools will help you alot . but the dont take the place of practice and knowlage , no mater how good the tools are

[welafong1]

hi guys
 before i had my stroke i used to tie fishing flys for fishing i got in to salmon flys they use to tell me you cant get the feathers hooks furs and sundries to make these any more its  illegal the more the nay Sayers said i cant i just went out and used my head and got the stuff i needed .granted the endangered spices act was in affect i still got the feathers but i got them any way they where havested be for the endangered act  came in to being i would not brake the law i saw no harm in what i did as long as these birds where n killed be fore 1930.i AL so prided my self for tieing a size 32 royal couchman the hook has no eye and its about 32 of a inch long so you have to lash the leader to the hook put on top of that a tail ,poly wing ,a fiber of turkey for the butt,red spider threads for the body ,a browen
hackle two tuns for a hackle i think i still could do it if i had the materials i don't give up easy i am on my way to building a fly reel i had to put off building a bamboo fly rod till next year.i am able to do a lot of things with one arm run a lathe a mill a drill press so if i have to use a potters wheel i will do it one leg vices i have some  if any of you guys know of a contest with a Lindsy palm
controller let me know who knows i might just get lucky you guys are very helpfull with the information you give
thank you all
Richard Westerfield

[rich pierce]

how am i to take that [The secret is out!] ?
richard westerfield

The best engravers are using the same tool.

[T*O*F]

if any of you guys know of a contest with a Lindsy palm
controller let me know

He failed to mention that the drawing required the submission of your work or a $65 donation, so even if you didn't win, you still received a stainless handle to replace the rubber one that comes with it.  That way you had a deluxe handle when you did purchase one.  However, I seem to recall the odds were less than 1 in 75.

The best engravers are using the same tool.

And they all say, "it's not how the tool is pushed, but rather who is pushing the tool."  Most of them are accomplished push and H&C engravers already.

[Captchee]

if any of you guys know of a contest with a Lindsy palm
controller let me know

He failed to mention that the drawing required the submission of your work or a $65 donation, so even if you didn't win, you still received a stainless handle to replace the rubber one that comes with it.  That way you had a deluxe handle when you did purchase one.  However, I seem to recall the odds were less than 1 in 75.
.

actually nope .
the contest i entered  was on Steve  put on  his forum . It consisted of a tutorial or  topic  that would run 3 months . At the end of the 3 months  the  person whos topic had the most posts , excluding  their own  and not including any posts  that did not pertain directly to the topic  OR  short agreements , would win .
All that was ask was that the tutorial or topic  to be used for the contest , be declared in the beginning as a contest submission  
 I chose to do a topic .
As I recall it was ;  17th and 18th century engraving  the lost art .
 In 2 months as I recall I had over 439 posts not including my own .
Page after page of photos  and discussions  as to what happened . Why did the face of engraving change  so suddenly . Why did the engraving here in the states not equal  that of European quality  .
 The nearest person to me had if I recall 290 there about.
 I paid no money   nor did I submit any work  . Good thing to because my work pails  greatly to the vast majority of those using the Lindsey .
 i also wil say this .

  While the Lindsey does come with a rubber end ,you can get the stainless , a Damascus or even a burl  wood   end for the Lindsey palm controls . I don’t belive he makes a different end for the original classic . But I could be wrong
 Myself I like the foot control better .  Maybe im just used to it .
 My point is , that I  tried  the palm controls  with the  other ends and did not like  it . The rubber end is comfortable and adds no  un needed weight to the graver  . To change out the piston you simply pop the end off and drop in a heavier piston. Then go back to work. No changing springs . No un screwing anything . Just pull the rubber end off and  push it back on  
IMO the  fancy  ends are nothing more then fooferaaaa .
 If I wanted such a thing , I would simply make it  out of what ever I wanted  . But it still would serve no purpose other the looks . which by the way your never going to see unless  you not using the graver .
 so 2 thumbs up on the  rubber handle  as well

 Also  here is something else that the Lindsey does very well Richard.
 One night I was having trouble sleeping and  thus figured I would play around and see just what I could do with the basic Lindsey  universal point .
 This was the result .
 no scope ,  just a set of loups  with the lindsey set to  my air brush compresser . no vice , just  holding it in my hands
 while its done on horn , i could very well have done the same thing on any  firearm .
.

 myself i see only one real problem with the lindsey graver .
 its just to easy to get carried away and end up  engraving every last inch of a gun  without realizing  your out of control
  

[Rasch Chronicles]

Capchee,

Lovely rendering!
And great advice via experience. I have never engraved, nor will I, I don't think, but your expanaitions make sense and even I understand where you are going.

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
I Would Rather Hunt, Than be Hunted!