Author Topic: Air powered graver  (Read 31464 times)

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2011, 05:02:10 PM »
Quote
actually nope .
Sorry, I assumed you won the one he donated for the Engrave-In.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
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Offline Captchee

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2011, 05:10:28 PM »

Quote
Lovely rendering!
thank you Albert .
 it would have been alot nicer if done with a smaller Bilino or scrimshaw point.
 but as i said i wanted to see what the universal would do 



Quote
actually nope .
Sorry, I assumed you won the one he donated for the Engrave-In.


No problem T*O*F
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 05:15:33 PM by Captchee »

welafong1

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2011, 08:47:15 PM »
 hi did any of you try or used a Pneumatic Air Scribe Engraver?
Chicago Pneumatic CP 9361 Industrial Scribe and Engraving Pen

thank you
richard westerfield
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 12:24:51 AM by Richard Westerfield »

Offline kutter

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2011, 09:00:25 PM »
I switched to a Lindsey Palm Engraver about 4 years ago. That was by necessity rather than choice.
After engraving w/ hammer, chisel & graver for 40+ years,,25 of it free lanse full time, a series of accidents (broken arms & wrists) & med problems (nerve) left me with no other way.
I could no longer hold a chisel steady enough to engrave,,actually having it shake so violently in my left hand that I would miss it with the hammer blows.
I finished up a job for a company at that point by bundling up a towel and bracing the left hand between it and my chest to steady it.
I Switched over to engraving left handed (chisel in right hand) as the rt hand didn't shake nearly as bad then. Surprising how fast you can adapt when you want to.

That lasted for a couple of years till the uncontrollable shaking caught up with me on that side to.
Throw in 2 separate accidents with a different broken arm and wrist each time (17 breaks total) over the next 3 years, metal plates & screws for repairs,,,and I was told I was done.

I thought one last try would be an air assisted engraver. I had very early on (early 80's) tried a GraverMax but didn't like it. Still had it and tried it again. Didn't work out for me. (Should sell the thing I guess now that I think of it!)

I saw Steve Lindseys  machines and thought the Palm Graver would either make it or break it.
I went for it (not cheap). I even found my self resisting the mechanical style graver dispite all my problems and end of the road status. I always resist change!

But it allowed me to rest my hands/wrists on the vise while working, avoiding and covering up the tremors. After some time I was engraving again and have used it ever since with great results.

It was tough to leave the hammer & chisel behind, but I had no other choice.
I'd still like to be able to use the traditional tool though,,still have them on the bench.
I think it's the right way to learn. But the time involved is much greater than with an air assist machine.

I still do animal detail with a hammer and blade punch as I can rest the hands on the vise & work.
I can post some pics if anyone is interested.

Semi retired now, but still take in some work from the outside.

Sorry for the long post.

Offline Captchee

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 12:11:35 AM »
 post some pic Kutter . allways good to see people work

welafong1

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2011, 02:18:50 AM »
hi
i am to take it that no one has ever used the "Chicago Pneumatic CP 9361 Industrial Scribe and Engraving Pen" tray as i might i cant seem to get any good information on this machine guess i will buy one and use it if it don't do what it says it does i return it but i would like to here from someone first so please let me know if you know any thing

thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2011, 02:24:20 AM »
Don't bother with the vibratory engraver.  All it does is vibrate, allowing a carbide tip to scratch and deform the surface.  This is much different than how a graver operates, whether air driven, pushed or chased with a hammer.

Jim

Offline Captchee

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 02:30:43 AM »
Don't bother with the vibratory engraver.  All it does is vibrate, allowing a carbide tip to scratch and deform the surface.  This is much different than how a graver operates, whether air driven, pushed or chased with a hammer.

Jim
yep i would 2nd that .
 dont waste your money  with the vibrators  or the rotory tools .

ahhhh let me take that back . if you know what your doing some of the Very High end and high speed  rotories are good for  removel

welafong1

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 03:10:23 AM »
hi
oh well back to the drawing broad thanks guys
Richard Westerfield

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 04:47:27 AM »
Absolutly Kutter, nothing like seeing a craftsman's work!

Best regards,
Albert “The Afghan” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
Animal Rights Extremists get Spanked!

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2011, 04:41:47 PM »
Richard,
Given your constraints, I believe this might be your alternative.
No foot pedal required.....one handed operation.

http://www.ngraver.com/engrave.htm

(one second thought, scratch that idea as it appears it is controlled by a foot operated rheostat)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:56:51 PM by T*O*F »
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 05:54:52 PM »
Just curious what you engravers would think??

what if the foot pedal is mounted up off the floor and on it's side?? that way instead of a foot, you could use your knee.. either on the outside of the leg or inside?? as with anything, it'd take some gettin used to?? but if the fine motor skills are gone with the foot.. maybe the thigh muscle could be trained to do the work??

Just trying to help out!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

aka, frustrated engraver wannabe!! ;)

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 05:59:48 PM »
or for that matter, could things be set up with the foot pedal?? so leaning in against it with your chest. you could manipulate the device??  would take some practice..
but I imagine it might work???

just trying to think outside the box??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Heck on You tube there is a amputee playing guitar with his feet!!
So anything is possible, if ya' want it badly enough!!!

MarkEngraver

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2011, 03:19:46 AM »
There was a guy here in town  that used a GraverMeister machine with the foot pedal control. He is paralyzed from the waist down, no use of his legs !
He disconnected the hose from the foot pedal and held it in his teeth and bit down on it to apply power to the hand piece ! Pretty good engraver too.

That's thinking outside the box!

I use a Gravermeister for the majority of my cutting but I also employ push graving and hammer chasing. Whatever is needed to accomplish the project at hand.( mostly Colt SAA's and Bolt guns )
I have tried the Lindsey system, it's nice, but I have the Gravermeister and can see no need to spend the money set up with something different than I'm use to.
If your just setting yourself up then go ahead and go for the Lindsey system, like I said, it is a nice machine.

Mark

welafong1

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2011, 04:26:29 AM »
thank you guys
i have an idea i i will let you know how it turns out when i hear from the pepole i am talking to
thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

hoochiepapa

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2011, 05:41:27 PM »
I wanna jump in here. I just got a GRS Gravermach 8 a few months ago, and see no need to go to anything more expensive. I have done engraving, wood carving, and metal removal with mine. Love it!!

welafong1

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2011, 12:31:04 AM »
 i ask the pepole at "Chicago Pneumatic if they thought about makeing a plam ingraver they havent gotten back to me as of yet i will lit you know how i make out
thanks for your ear
Richard Westerfield

Offline kutter

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2011, 03:07:18 AM »
Here's a few pics of my work I said I'd post if there was any interest. Seems to be some!
Most all of these are cartridge arms and I appologize if they are out of place on this forum. My only intent was to display the engraving so I have picked photos that show small areas of the guns instead of the entire piece.

Some of this is with hammer & chisel,,,then some is with a Lindsey Palm Engraver more recently as my ability to hold the traditional tools failed.

The animals, both gold and those just cut into the steel are all done the same. I still do those with a hammer and small blade punch/chisel. Simply a piece of 1/8dia drill rod sharpened to a very acute angle and of late stuck into a bigger diameter piece of steel for easy handling.
Resting my wrists on the vise allows me to work with this system still. Alot of air powered graver users do Bullino (dot) shading with their machines. I just haven't gotten to that point yet and I like this style anyway. It's served me well for a long time.

The tiny blade makes the cross hatch marks as a person doing pencil drawing would do for the shading. Various tones can be created depending on how much cross hatching is done and how fine it is. On gold it makes different shades of color all the way to black also. I use a hammer, mostly a medium engravers hammer for this just 'cause it feels right. My regular hammer when I still used one ws a 4oz Craftsman BallPeen. Did everything with that including shading 24k inlays and never had a problem. Whatever works for you.

It's fairly fast to work up a figure this way. Tiny raised burr of the stabbed line creates a shadow also giving it the same effect as the more common Bullino style egraving where tiny individual raised dots are actually the burr and they create a shadow.
No ink or coloring in any of the cuts. Most of the parts are shown in the white. The bottom of the shotgun action/ goose has been given a grey finish with nitric acid though.




My one and only M/L build of late. Engraving on the lock and furniture but my pics didn't come out at all.  Lock tail marked 'No 4',,,,the other 3 were done almost 50 yrs ago.
Made this one last summer. 50cal 7/8"oct. Started with a squared cut stock block that was already channeled for the bbl and ramrod when I found it at a show.
So I bought a GM 50cal bbl to keep it as light as possible and then a bunch of hardware to make something that looked good to me.
Siler lock. Made some mistakes but it was fun. Just under 400 shots so far.


Remington Hepburn S/S underlever. Done with Lindsey Palm engraver



One of the last hammer & chisel jobs I did. Really struggled through this one
RBL 28 pattern


Owners request for his favorite K9 on the bottom of his Win21.
24k gold. Done from 3 snap shot photos supplied at the time,,, I left off his Santa hat.
About 1"+ actual size IIRC. That was done probably 10 years ago.


Another Win21 24k inlay on trigger plate. Grouse done using same technique
of using small blade chisel and hammer for the details..


Upgraded Parker shotgun. This is a hammer and chisel job from 15(?) years ago.


Bottom of a Lefever Nitro Spec. I upgraded a bit. The scroll is cut with a Lindsey,,the
goose (and the ducks on the sides) are done the old way.
Grey finish w/nitric acid. Did this one last year.





Last three are of a Colt 38 revolver. Some of the engraving on the bottom of the bbl at the muzzle,,placing gold bands
into the bbl,, and the side plate with the Colt pony logo inlayed in 24k.
I rust blued this one when finished.
First job with the Lindsey IIRC


You can engrave with the simplest of tools if you have everything working for you. The air assisted tool allowed me to keep working after doing it the traditional way for 40+ years. I'd still like working that way and wish I could still use the tools. But reality has a way of stepping in.

Find a way that works for you and go with it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:16:32 AM by kutter »

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2011, 03:56:06 AM »
Kutter,

could you show the points you were talking about?? Visual learner here!! :D

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2011, 05:03:21 AM »
Kutter,

Awesome...

That grouse, and the setter, just wonderful!

Thank you for sharing with us!

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles: George Washington, President and Fisherman

Offline smart dog

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2011, 05:44:01 AM »
I wanna jump in here. I just got a GRS Gravermach 8 a few months ago, and see no need to go to anything more expensive. I have done engraving, wood carving, and metal removal with mine. Love it!!

Hi Mike,
Actually, the Lindsay Classic Airgraver with regulator, controller, and compressor is no more expensive than the GraverMach 8, which is a comparable unit.  Lindsay's  Palm Control Airgraver, which is activated not by a pedal or dial but by the pressure you extert on the tool during a cut is much more expensive but there is nothing on the market that matches the performance of that tool.  I fooled with the GraverMach system when shopping for an pneumatic graver but settled on the Lindsay system.  Steve's graver simply worked better and felt more like a push graver with which I already had skill and experience. 


Kutter,
Wondeful work.  I love English scrolls.

dave   
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Dave Waters

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2011, 06:00:21 AM »
I'll jump back in here and say a big thanks to all of you for the encouragement that you have given me ifor having choosen the Lindsay graver. Steve sent a email and said it was shipped and FedEx says it should arrive Thursday before 4:30 PM.
Am I excited? You Betcha!!!! ;D

I don't expect to even begin to do the great work that Kutter and others have shown on the forum. But I believe this tool will allow me to focus on the "design and line" and reduce all the other distractions. We'll see. I've always said that the skill was in the man and not in the machine, but I believe this is one time that the machine will really help me.

Thanks again!

Dave
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 06:03:35 AM by Dave Waters »

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2011, 06:40:20 AM »
Dave,
i for one am looking forward to seeing your work. I always appreciate a craftsman learning his art, and sharing it with others.

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles: George Washington, President and Fisherman

Dave Waters

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2011, 03:51:23 PM »
Thanks Albert. For years I've chiseled my own stuff a little. But, Im trying to finish up another swivel breech for my self and I'd like to do better than I have in the past.

The great work that we are privileged to see on this forum has been a inspiration to me to do better. Just like the pic's by Kutter! WOW. :o Clearly the skill is in the man and just made a little easier by the machine.

We are indeed privleged to have masters of the work to show us how it's done.

By the way, are you still "over there"? If so when do you finally get back to enjoying BP in this land of the free?

Dave

« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:53:54 PM by Dave Waters »

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: Air powered graver
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2011, 04:23:32 PM »
Dave,

I have two, maybe three more years before I can call it quits here and come home for good. I et a couple of weeks of R&R every six months or so, and I have to make due with that. With the economy as poor as it is now, I am kind of ummm, stuck. But the Mrs is getting her college education, as is Bubby. And as I always say, an investment in education is always a good thing. We wouldn't be able to manage that if I wasn't overseas.

As they say, Time flies when youre having fun!

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
Lions in the Yard!