Author Topic: brass barrels  (Read 7562 times)

billd

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brass barrels
« on: August 10, 2011, 02:33:56 PM »
I came across a brass barrel for sale, .58 caliber, made by Ed Rayle.  It's slow twist but the grooves are narrower than what I'm used to seeing.  The gentleman who has it said it was ordered from Ed as a roundball barrel.   Does anyone know if these barrels shoot as good a steel, last as long?   Any other pros or cons?

Thanks,
Bill

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 03:42:37 PM »
Not all yellow barrels are brass. Some are bronze.
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mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 04:48:14 PM »
Don't know much about them. One thing for sure, you don't have to worry about rust ;D

Offline rich pierce

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 05:04:37 PM »
Sell it to me, they're no good!   ::)  I actually have no personal experience but would love to have one.
Andover, Vermont

billd

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 05:10:27 PM »
Since Ed Rayle made it, I am assuming it's bronze.  I don't think regular brass is strong enough for a barrel. 

Bill

Offline Dphariss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 05:30:36 PM »
Brass is not safe for a gun barrel, the proper bronze alloyis.
I believe "Naval" bronze is the correct alloy. Similar to the alloy used in bronze artillery.

Dan
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Offline Rolf

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 09:53:07 PM »
It's also called gunmetal because it's used in  gun barrels and canons.  British standard gunmetal is 88% copper + 10% tin + 2% zinc.

Best regards
Rolf

blunderbuss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 10:53:53 PM »
I have several brass barrels never cracked one never blew one up. Many originals were brass, blunderbusses many pistols . I don't see many rifled ones though.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 11:17:39 PM »
I have several brass barrels never cracked one never blew one up. Many originals were brass, blunderbusses many pistols . I don't see many rifled ones though.


Were they?
Or bronze?
And remember lots of barrels failed back in the day so using 18th century materials as a standard is foolish.

Dan





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blunderbuss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2011, 12:15:02 AM »
 The ones I use are brass frankly I've never seen a brass barrel blow I've seen several modern steel ones go though. If you saw the post on the pistol I had that had the interchangeable nipple /flintlock conversion it has a brass barrel turned from solid stock I've fired that many times. Lots of old brass blunderbuss barrels out there. problem back in the day with brass is that much was cast and castings would be weak or have bubbles or be brittle brass. You wouldn't catch me casting one though

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 03:25:21 AM »
      I posted some photos of a rifle i built using one of Ed's "Brass" barrels a while back.  When I engraved the barrel it cut very much like brass, certainly nothing like the bronze butt plates etc. that you sometimes get in wax castings.  Since I built the gun for a client I only got to sight it in and do a minimal amount of shooting with it.  I can say it was just as accurate as any other barrel when I didi the initial sight regulation.  It grouped well, and i see no reason why it should not provide good service.  I would certainly have no reservations on using a brass barrel again. 
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 04:39:38 PM »
The ones I use are brass frankly I've never seen a brass barrel blow I've seen several modern steel ones go though. If you saw the post on the pistol I had that had the interchangeable nipple /flintlock conversion it has a brass barrel turned from solid stock I've fired that many times. Lots of old brass blunderbuss barrels out there. problem back in the day with brass is that much was cast and castings would be weak or have bubbles or be brittle brass. You wouldn't catch me casting one though

There are a lot of modern ML barrels made of material that the steel makers will tell you is unsuitable.
They used to make gun barrels, the export stuff especially, of very poor iron riddled with inclusions.
Some failed but most apparently did not. This was a problem at least into the second quarter of the 19th century and surely beyoud.
The problem is that a catastrophic failure of a gun barrel will virtually always hurt the shooter. A failure up the top flat or out toward the muzzle is the "safest". But if it bursts or fails at one of the bottom flats its anything from a trip to the doctor for wood shard removal to the loss of a hand.
But nobody wants to look at this side of the "lets use unsuitable material for gun barrels" discussion.
It does not matter to me is the slightest what anyone uses for gun barrels but people need to be aware of the risks in using unsuitable materials. I will not be around someone shooting a brass barreled gun or other such nonsense. I leave the vicinity.
I found out years ago what someones head looks like after being subjected to explosives I have no desire to see it again.
But hey, its America, people can do anything they want so long as they are willing to bear the consequences.
Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 04:59:53 PM »
It's also called gunmetal because it's used in  gun barrels and canons.  British standard gunmetal is 88% copper + 10% tin + 2% zinc.

Best regards
Rolf

This material made very good field pieces in the day. The BRONZE 12 pound "Napoleans" had no failure rate in the American Civil War all the cast iron barrels did. Some Naval guns were so bad that crews refused to serve them, or so I have read. The info on the bronze guns came from a Congressional study call "The conduct of the the war" a book a friend used to own that went into gun failures in detail an the things they did to reduce teh failure rate of cast iron guns.
The guns often failed in combat when very hot. It was thought that the wet mop was over stressing the hot iron guns but had no effect on the bronze guns due to the heat transfer properties.
The problem with this today is I am informed that at least as far as brass alloys are concerned there is a considerable variation in the properties of the "same" alloy from batch to batch. There is no consistency. If this carries over to the bronzes as well, and it likely does, then they are not safe for guns either. The various militaries back in the day were careful about the alloy used and the guns stood up.
Except the iron guns. One of these failed during a ship board test firing in the 1850s and killed a number of gov't officials including the then Secretary of The Navy...
But Bronze was not strong enough for the rifled guns shooting elongated projectiles and something like 200 pounds of powder.
Dan
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 05:00:26 PM by Dphariss »
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Offline Kermit

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 06:15:03 PM »
Has anyone asked Ed? Bet he could inform! Call him up--I have, and he's always helpful.
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billd

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2011, 06:34:31 PM »
When posted this I was only looking for someone to say they have or had one and it shot good or lousy or wore out fast.   I wasn't looking for a debate on what's safe or unsafe, or what alloys should be used. 

Yes, I did talk to Ed.  He called the alloy he uses Navy Brass.  Said he's made many barrels with it over the years with no problems, although he won't recommend it for conical bullet barrels.

But he couldn't answer my question of how quick they wear out.  He did say they are as accurate as any steel barrel. One drawback he did mention is the heat waves coming from the barrel seem to be much more noticeable on summer days than from steel.

Thanks for everyone's replies,
Bill

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2011, 06:51:46 PM »
One drawback he did mention is the heat waves coming from the barrel seem to be much more noticeable on summer days than from steel.

Thanks for everyone's replies,
Bill

Because Cu is very good at conducting thermal energy.  Carbon smoking the top of the bbl will create an insulation layer if it becomes a particular problem and you need a quick-fix.
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jimc2

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Re: brass barrels
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 07:19:18 PM »
one down side they are heavy ,they weigh mor than a compareble steel barrel