metal detecting find

[vtbuck223]

The previous post about the F&I War barrel that was found metal detecting reminded me of something I found years ago. At the time...I  just threw it in my bag. I have found a lot of old axe heads and other interesting stuff but I never expected to find a butt plate. Where I live this is a  rare find. It was near an old foundation up in the mountains...that dates back to the late 1700's...early 1800's. I have gone back once to look for more parts...the problem is...I don't remember exactly where I was. It's also likely that this is all there is. I know it's not much to go on...but folks on this site have a peculiar amount of knowledge about this stuff...so I thought I'd see if anyone has any thoughts around its sytle...manufacture....age...etc. Thanks for taking a look.

[Buffalochip]

My guess is that is from a late 1700-early 1800 musket or fowler, possilbly English. It is quite wide, indicating a heavily stocked weapon, and appears to have been damaged in a fire, given the distortion, but then brass bends easily....

[G-Man]

Interesting.

Is it brass?  It looks like iron to me.

Not sure what mountains it was found in - if you could tell us that would help narrow it down.  But at first glance, if it is iron I would guess it to be from a relatively early rifle from the southern Appalachians or nearby - perhaps western Piedmont North Carolina.  Definitely not an English piece.  The proportions of the buttplate suggest North Carolina to me anyway.  The heel and the edges look to have been pounded on and flattened out - not sure what for  - perhaps some sort of makeshift use as a tool.  The position of the lower screw looks very low, so I would suspect the toe of the buttplate was shortened at some point as well. The rectangular dark area on the inside is interesting - perhaps where the metal rested in direct contact with the wood when it was on the stock.

It looks to me like the bottom edge may have been filed and sharpened - perhaps the whole thing was reshaped to use as a hide scraper(?).

Guy

[JTR]

I think G-Man has hit it with the thought that this butt plate has been turned into a tool!
I think mayby the toe end was a hide scraper, the flattened heel used as a hammer. Mayber had a handle attached to it somehow as well. The dark spot on the inside; maybe where the price tag from the antique store had been stuck on?

I don't know what type of gun it came off. Your tape measure shows it's about 4 inches long now, and was probably at least 5 inches long originally, and relitively flat. It looks wide in the pictures, but how wide is it? 1 3/4 inches. or so? Looks like mayby the thick heel part was a bit rounded originally?
I'm guessing some sort of early euro military musket.
Interesting for sure!
John

[vtbuck223]

You guys are good! Great observations and questions. First let me say that it was found in Northern Vermont about 40 miles from the Canadian border...right in the heart of the Green Mountains.  It does appear to be brass...I just did the magnet test. Until you asked the question...I had just assumed this... based on its appearance and lack of rust....this is the way it looked when I dug it out of 10 inches of dirt....no cleaning other than to wipe the dirt off. The rectangular dark area that you guys spotted and then suggested it was the tag from the antique store made me laugh....because it was from my tag that I taped on to mark the location....but took off for the picture. (I have to keep this area a secret...now that I know there is treasure there... ) I wondered if anyone would pick up on that...I should have known you would. It is 1 1/2 inches wide. I had wondered if the bottom part had been broken off...and your observations would make sense. I'm not sure I know enough to answer the question about the heel being rounded. It appears to me that the heal itself has rounded edges but I don't think it is rounded in the way you are asking. Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think I'm going to grab my metal detector and take another shot at finding some more pieces to this....you never know.

[Eric Krewson]

I bet granny made a hoe out of it to keep the weeds out of her tomato patch.

[JTR]

 
Haha, as for the antique store price tag,, I hadn't noticed that you'd actually dug it up!

If the plate is 1 1/2 inches wide, that moves it out of the early gun era, and into 1800ish and on.

Now go on back out there and find us a barrel or lock, or signs of an ancient tomato patch!! 

John

[Buffalochip]

Albeit a bit wide, it is very similar to a Lancaster or Lebanon style butt plate, possibly a shimmel. If you found it at an old house site, that would lend credence to the suggestion that it was used as a tool.

[Dale Campbell]

I bet granny made a hoe out of it to keep the weeds out of her tomato patch.

Literally turned her weapon into a plowshare. 

[Ben I. Voss]

Looks like it has a lot of heel - wear from being loaded on rocky ground!

[Habu]

Five or six years ago I was taking a second look at some artifacts excavated back in the '60s.  I found one butt-plate tagged "gun part" that had obviously been re-purposed as a hoe.  It had a lot more wear at the toe than this one seems to have.   

[Buffalochip]

Five or six years ago I was taking a second look at some artifacts excavated back in the '60s.  I found one butt-plate tagged "gun part" that had obviously been re-purposed as a hoe.  It had a lot more wear at the toe than this one seems to have.   

maybe the ground was harder

[Habu]

As you say, the ground could well have been harder (or more abrasive, or the one I saw could have been used more extensively).  But the toe of the buttplate in the picture doesn't appear to show the expected wear patterns typical of tools used in the ground, or as a fleshing tool.  The tip of the comb end still has toolmarks, so that probably wasn't a hoe or scraper; wear-patterns would show up on the toolmarks first. 

Going a bit further, I don't think it has been shortened at the toe--or if it was, it was fit to a gun after that.  If you look at the third picture down, there appears to be a chamfer of some sort around the inside edges of the "butt" part of the buttplate, where the edges would be fit to the wood of the stock.  Maybe it was used on a gun built from salvaged parts at some point, or cut down for a kids' gun. 

 

[vtbuck223]

Thanks for all the great observations and thinking this through with me.  Pretty interesting. I did see a couple buttplates in the Track of the Wolf catalog that were almost exactly the same size and shape.....heel was a little different though. By the way...I went back up to the site with my metal detector....and I remembered why I don't go metal detecting all that much...nothing but a few pieces of heavily rusted iron (my detector is a cheap one). Thanks again....Jeremy