Author Topic: Need help troubleshooting  (Read 9462 times)

wetzel

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Need help troubleshooting
« on: August 28, 2011, 01:46:34 AM »
Guys, I'm having a problem and need some help.  I built a rifle last spring, and this is my first flintlock.  My problem is the gun will shoot pretty fast most of the time, but quite often the pan will ignite but the rifle wont go off.  What causes this?  I don't clean the touchhole after every shot with a vent pick but when I have a problem I do and then it still will often take a few times to get the rifle to go off.  I am pretty sure the touch hole is in the right spot.  Is there something I am missing in the loading process?  After loading the powder should I tip it toward the touch hole allowing the powder to enter the hollowed chamber of the white lightning vent liner before packing it with patch and ball?  Any ideas or questions to help with your ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.  I took the gun to a shoot today and with this problem plus the heat am really frustrated.

Online wattlebuster

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 01:53:46 AM »
First thats a purty rifle. maybe this will help with your problem. I pick my vent each an every time I load my flinters an ever since I have not had any problems but until I started doing that I did have some flashes in the pan. Give it a try an good luck to you :)
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

Offline bgf

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 02:20:04 AM »
Try picking the vent before you load (and after you wipe if you wipe between shots).  On the really nasty days, that seems to work better --sometimes picking after loading apparently just pushes the fouling back some but still blocks the good powder from being exposed to the flash fully.  I notice this kind of problem on the truly hot/humid (90 plus either/both?) days.  On a pleasant 80 or so degree day, I don't ever pick and rarely if ever have a problem.  Also, if you're patches are really wet and it is good and humid weather (see above :)), the whole charge might get damp and it takes a few primes to dry it out?  We had a match a few weeks ago in which almost every one on the line had some kind of issue, even the caplocks were fouling up.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 06:49:18 AM »
Are you using sufficient prime?
Fill the pan 2/3 to 3/4 full.
Too little prime is a common cause of flashes in the pan.
The WL is supposed to be filled with powder from the main charge.
This is not a WL but is similar note where the powder is.

What powder are you using and what granulation?
Poor quality powder can cause flakes of fouling in the bore with can block the vent.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

wetzel

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 07:16:45 AM »
I am using Goex FF.  I am not cleaning between shots, though I do lube my patches with moose milk (a combination of machine oil, amonia, 409, water and some other stuff I cant remember).  I really feel that the main problem is I need to lean the barrel or give it a slight tap to have the charge right where Dan's is in his picture before compressing it, also pick the vent before loading. When I have a problem I pick the flash hole and it seems like there is not much right there, I have never looked.  I read the article Filling the vent test, pretty interesting, always wondered about that.  Makes sense that a flash would be faster than a fuse.  I also think as Dan mentioned I might not be using enough powder in the pan, I was very sparing today since I was afraid of running out in my little pan charger.  What do you guys use for a pan charger when you will be shooting quite a bit to avoid running out?  I appreciate all of your time and interest.  Oh, thanks Wattlebuster on the compliment, I put a lot of time and love into this rifle and appreciate the notice.   

Mike Norin

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 03:43:59 PM »
I pick the vent right after the shot and just before putting in new powder and wipe after about 8 to 10 shots . It works for me , maybe not for you , but give it a try , good luck !!

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 05:01:34 PM »
Agree, she's a purty one alright and like to see more of her.

Now then, you seem to be saying that you load her after you prime her.  If so please prime After you load her...

Many things could cause the flash in the pan and no ignition....I open the w lightning liner a bit more than 1/16 inch.  Many times a cake of fouling builds on the breech plug and the rifleman thinks she is clean but she 'ain't'..(Where did I hear that before?)  Scrape or soak that breech face while cleaning so the cake does not build and close off the vent partly or entirely.  When you wipe 'tween shots you may be using a too damp patch.  If I weere betting I would go with the too small v ent opening.  Let us know what the cure turns out to be.    ;D

PS When I say soak her breech face I mean at final cleaning after the shoot.  Or scrape her during a shoot.

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 05:01:46 PM »
It,s difficult to see, but your touch hole looks small.   Did you enlarge it after removing the stub after installing it?   I usually enlarge it to at least .063  (1/16"), or slightly larger, this could affect how quickly she goes off...............Don

buffalo

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2011, 05:10:47 PM »
I,m a newbe ,bout 10yrs,major problems when i started,now have 4 flinters,because of this forum problems are almost gone,touch hole ,min. .062",my tulle is .072",pan polished mirror smooth,i,ll repolish once in a while,frizzen cleaned with alcohol ,not your thumb, bevel down on flints seem to work better for me,flints wrapped in lead or leather,leadseems to work better,but a couple guys here kinda scared me so only one of my guns uses lead,tap barrel when pouring powder down,a couple kernels  should go into pan,if not clean touch hole, i over sharpen my flints,as i mostly hunt i use a brand new flint every time,half cock flint should almost touch frizzen, oh yeh,i,ll wet an dry patch every couple shots then pick touch hole ,target shooting ,sorry darryl can,t seem to go multiply shots without cleaning,i hope this helps

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 11:33:20 PM »
I had similar problem when I started shooting flintlock.  Applied a couple procedures and it went away so I continue those procedures.  First I was wiping between shots with a "wet patch" which produced goop in the touchhole.  I haven't been able to achieve Daryl's no wiping success so now I wipe with a barely damp patch, wipe the pan, side of barrel and underside of frizzen, and I pick after loading before priming.  Have always used a goodly amount of prime (bigger fire just made sense to me.)

Something else that helps is to make sure your jag is small enough that it provides little drag going down the bore yet bunches up the patch on withdrawal so most of the gunk gets dragged out rather than pushed to bottom of bore.  Had to spin my jag in the drill press and take a few thousands off with mill file. 

54Bucks

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 02:02:51 AM »
 I've never had problems when using white lightning liners. Never had the need to enlarge them. My loading habit is to bump my gun a few times just ahead of the trigger guard after dropping a powder charge and before I seat the ball. I always thought this helped settle the powder against the breech and inside the touchhole. Once the powder is against the inside of the touch hole, I don't know why anyone would want to pick any powder away from the pan. Powder ignites, open air space doesn't. If you are not cleaning after each shot, I might try opening up the touchole with a pick before dropping a fresh charge. Perhaps you have one that's clogging for some reason.

wetzel

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 03:14:49 AM »
Interesting, I have not enlarged the touchhole.  I do not prime the pan before loading, could see problems with that:)  Hopefully I can get out in the next couple of days to try tapping the barrel side to get powder seated next right next to pan charge, if that doesn't work I will try enlarging the hole.  Will get back to you guys.  Thanks again!!

Offline Gene Carrell

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 01:44:59 PM »
I find a bump on the lock-side of the barrel will move powder into the vent. Do this by bumping the barrel with the stock off the ground; doesn't take much. I don't wipe between shots and have little fouling in the barrel, but choice of powder seems to make a great difference.  Humidity was up this weekend  at Friendship and the pan seemed to have more water than Laughery  Creek. A lot of wiping dry.
Gene

Offline Habu

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 07:25:54 PM »
You might try plugging the vent with a feather before loading; remove the feather when you prime.  This has worked well for me in several flintlocks that were otherwise somewhat problematic. 

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 06:16:41 AM »
Already mentioned, but I second polishing the pan. It does seem to help. I also honed the touch hole,ie after drilling, I "polish " with the shank of the bit. I want it nice and polished too. Mine  { touch holes] are all 5/64ths now.   Misfires, flash in the pans , are almost non existent.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 02:10:51 AM »
The W/L touch holes are a little on the small side. I tried a couple "as is" just to see, but ended up drilling out to 1/16". Now I drill them at installation.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2011, 02:17:32 AM »
When I installed a White Lightning liner, I made inquiry of Jim Chambers as to whether to drill out the hole.   The reply was

"For maximum accuracy you should leave the hole as installed and change the liner once he hole enlarges past 1/16" which usually occurs after apporximately 3000 shots.  For maximum ignition without any misfires I normally enlarge the hole to 1/16". I don't do much serious target shooting, so I'm more interested in having100% ignition than in having pin point accuracy."

dannybb55

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2011, 03:32:09 AM »
I work on so many boats that my mind kept translating w/l as water/line, very confusing. ??? ;D

Leatherbelly

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2011, 08:34:57 PM »
  I'd open the hole to 1/16th and use 4f for prime.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 08:38:44 PM by Leatherbelly »

Leatherbelly

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2011, 08:55:07 PM »
 I never have to wipe between shots,ever!  Be it 20,50 or 150 shots,no wiping. The secret is a good radiused crown on the muzzle,.017 to .020 thick patch around a ball .005 smaller than the bore.I use a short starter to get the ball in the bore about 8 inches and push the ball down in 6 to 8 inch increments with the rod.A good lube is important here also. Spit is probably the easiest and best. I like a winter windshield washer as a base and add a little neatsfoot oil to this.(sloppy wet patch)This is my range type of lube. Each time you reload with this combo, it cleans the bore as you push the new load home. And, this type of loading gives great accuracy,IMHO. Worth a try if you like shooting all day without the hassel of swabbing between shots.  

*Just an added note: With your guns ramrod and this combo, do not try to sink the ball in one big stroke.You will likely break your RR and impale yourself. Just short little pushes about 8 inches is safer. I hope you guys try this. It will give you better accuracy and make your shooting experience a whole lot better.Just my humble opinion of course.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 09:22:24 PM by Leatherbelly »

Offline frenchman

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2011, 09:15:47 PM »
HI Wetzel,
 go check the thread , slow ignition , i had slow ignition problems but the guy's came out with great solutions and solve my problems. It was an amount of small things. I know you will find what you need and more in that thread. It touches just about every possibility. For my summer lube just cutting oil, i cut 7/1 and it's great never swab in betwen shots.
Gun looks good need more details about that baby
Denis

Leatherbelly

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 09:32:46 PM »
  Wetz,
  Just went thru this thread again. After looking at your nice rifle picture, It looks like your vent is back of the center of the pan. Maybe the camera angle,not sure.

doug

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2011, 06:13:45 PM »
     I would do two things that might reduce your problems.  I would use 3F powder because being finer, it tends to fill the inside of the vent liner more easily, especially so with a 1/4" diameter liner.  The second thing is that I smack the barrel / forestock area several times after putting powder in; I feel that increases the probability of the powder entering the cavity of the vent liner.  I never wipe between shots when shooting a trail and use moose milk as a patch lube

cheers Doug

Daryl

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Re: Need help troubleshooting
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 01:11:56 AM »
Oft times, when shooting 2F in my .40 or .45, I get a chunk of hard fouling that blocks the vent. Pricking the vent eliminates this problem if done every time. I usually remember to prick the vent if I get a pan flash without ignition. Yeah - slow learner.

This doesn't happen with 3F (which is small rifle calibre and pistol powder to me. Anything .50 and above, I've always had the best accuracy results with 2F.  And yes - it takes more powder to do that - - but it's worth it.