about shooting

[frenchman]

out again doing some tests.
75 fff /patch denim .021 / ball .445
with my summer lube  (cutting oil 7/1 )my first shot is always off. For shooting on target i can live with it because no 2 is where it should be and the rest will follow if i do my part for the rest of the day.

next question ,for fall hunting i should be using tow mink oil in cold weather. For that first shot .Should i simply shoot a shot a few days before hunting and keep the barrel dirty maybe just a quick swab to keep my first shoot true.

Mink oil, boy this stuff is really oily and slick but it's sending my shots just about everywhere, i will be testing its velocity and compare with my summer lube velocity.  Will a change of velocity make that big of a difference.
 
question,for you guys that use a bit off both any major change in your grouping. Mine are really off and i don't intend to play with the sights.

[Dave Faletti]

I have different lubes for target and hunting but they shoot the same.  I wouldn't put up with ones that shot different.  A little difference in velocity or POI vertically wouldn't bother me.  I also wouldn't use a lube that needs fouling shots.  Are you having differences from first and second shot from a truly clean bore(ie no oil in it).  What you are using to protect the bore could be causing trouble on the first shot.

[northmn]

I have different lubes for target and hunting but they shoot the same.  I wouldn't put up with ones that shot different.  A little difference in velocity or POI vertically wouldn't bother me.  I also wouldn't use a lube that needs fouling shots.  Are you having differences from first and second shot from a truly clean bore(ie no oil in it).  What you are using to protect the bore could be causing trouble on the first shot.

I generally agree but sometimes one can load a bit heavier for that first shot out of a clean barrel.  Grease lubes best for hunting sometimes will shoot different after fouling.   For targets most of the more liquid lubes likely shoot in the same place.

DP

[54Bucks]

 Frenchman this brings up a question/problem that I have never seen answered or resolved. I too use different lubes for target work and hunting. My preferred target lube is neither good for our cold late hunting season, nor for leaving(loaded) in a gun for an extended period during a season. But I don't see the problem as the lube. I notice all my rifles shoot out of the group(inches) on a clean bore compared to any following shots afterwards, regardles of which lube is used? Doesn't make or break things on deer sized game. And I'm not going to shoot a fowling shot nor clean afterwards each time out during a season.

[zimmerstutzen]

Many target match competitors fire a fouling shot into the back stop before beginning the shooting for score.  It was explained to me that a clean barrel doesn't shoot to the same point,  With match shooting a shooter wants everything as consistent as possible, including the amount of fouling in the bore.   At distances beyond 25 yds it seems to be true. 

However, I  learned with my Springfield trapdoor that the first shot is always high and left at 100 yds.  The next comes a little lower and still left and then the third is just slightly left.  The fourth is usually then right on as are the following shots, as long as I keep up a regular shooting frequency.  If I take a break and start up again with a cold barrel, it does the initial three shots all over again.  I always figured it was barrel heat, thin barrel and barrel bands that caused such a thing.    A similar initial pattern happens when I shoot the 45 cal muzzle loader drop in barrel for that gun.

[northmn]

The problem is in the fouling itself and the barrel heating up.  When a rifle fouls you push a bit of "stuff" on top of the powder charge when loading.  Whether this "stuff" causes a change due to more weight of just the effect on the base of the ball???  Liquid lubes tend to keep a barrel more consistantly clean than do the grease lubes.  Grease lubes work best for keeping a load in a barrel for an extended period. Hunting rifles really need to be sighted in on a cold clean barrel.  Works even for cartridge guns.

DP

[frenchman]

For me, the first shot  is  3 inch to the right than it closes to center on the second shot and stays there. but i will try to clean  the storing oil from the barrel and make sure it's dried off real good and see what happens,  very curious of what some of you guy's do for the guns that are a bit finicky. If it's what the gun does i will just compensate a bit, i usually shoot them within 20 yards but it happens that sometimes 60 to 70, its for that sometimes. About leaving a load in a gun, never again will i do this again, always had misfires i rather shoot and do a small cleaning and reload next day nothing like fresh powder.So i guess i will do more test and see how it goes. Geeee i guest i will have to go and shoot again or cut the grass what a decision.

[Leatherbelly]

 Denis,
  Last year I tried loading my regular 75g 2f charge except with bear grease in an absolute clean barrel. Same patch and ball combination. At the end of the day, I discharged the rifle aiming at a rock of 8 inches or so at 50 yards. To my surprise, I was low and left by about a foot! What a disappointment. This got me thinking. I need to try a different combination.
  When a fellow leaves the house to go hunting, one has a cleaned barrel from your last shoot. And I don't want to shoot my gun off before I hunt so I'm thinking a guy needs to sight in with an absolute clean barrel every time between shots. This means wiping the bore to make it clean between shots.PITA but this is my theory.Anyone else sight in this way with greased patches? I used bear grease last year. Never again. Huge mess after one shot. Neetsfoot oil is my next practice lube.

[Robby]

Leatherbelly, That is the way I sight in my hunting loads, clean the gun, not just wipe, after every shot. It is a pain in the rear, so I try to wait for a weekend when my boys will be home and make an event out of it. It does make a difference, to me.
Robby

[Leatherbelly]

Thanks Robbie,
  I going to try the neetsfoot for a first shot kill shot. So I'll sight in with it.(now the ideas are really swirling around my 3 remaining brain cells,lol) Then,I'm thinking..ouch.. that I'll pack a few patches soaked in Lehigh Valley for a follow up and/or cleanup if needed.

[frenchman]

I will try the clean barrel trick with tow mink oil see what it does. It is just for hunting purpose i just need a constant  with a grease patch for deer . Well a guest i need to go shoot again and try something different and luck is with me, i just cut a bunch patches   

[frenchman]

Went shooting today, did some test that came out quite well i am very happy. Some of the result will have to be retested but i have a good idea where to proceed next. ( Had to leave the shooting bench to other shooters )

The 5 test where done with the start of a clean barrel at 25 yards with a 6 oclock hold.
Mink oil was melted with the microwave, this makes a big difference from rubbing with the fingers that also made a big difference with the groupings and a lot less messy, I did not keep the targets so you will have to take my word for it .
powder charge was 75 gr FFF goex
I hope you can read from the targets.
Mink oil and denim .021 did not work with this gun ( maybe with FF ) .Also tried some smaller balls but that will have to take a side bench for a while While denim .021 and cutting oil 7/1 was great just need a little work.






I found my summer and fall load they still need some work but i am going in the right direction .I paid attention on the first load to make sure there was no oil residue the same would happen for hunting , very happy with the turn of events next test with my bear lube.
HO NO!! Now i have to go shoot again and do more tests.