Pouring the nose cap (squirrel rifle again)

[M Tornichio]

Thankfully this forum is blessed with many talented craftsman. This photo sequence probably does not offer alot of new information for many, but It may be of some help to those who have never poured one before. the rifle I am building is very plain, so I resisted going too crazy with the  cap design. It is pretty much strait forward like the rest of the gun. I always am able to learn by watching how others work. I hope someone finds it usefull.

First things first. I shaped the forend to about 1/8" thick on each side of the barrel.
this dimension is too large, but I wanted to take the wood and cap down at the same time after it is poured. So it have some room to work with here.
This first group of pictures show the design drawn in pencil. It is a simple design.

[M Tornichio]

After drawing the design it is time to start cuting out the areas that pewter is going to flow into. I actually was mezmorized with cutting all the slots, because I really went too deep in a couple of areas. It really will not be a problem though because the pewter needs to go through into the barrel channel to lock everything in place. I counter sinked any of the slots that passed through to assist in keeping everything solid


When that has been accomplished it is time to use something for a form. I used a heavy card stock paper. Since I had plenty of wood left, I just taped it too the wood its self with out adding any extra dimension around the form. I then taped everything off. I should mention that I also used a ramrod for part of the form.



Now it is time for the pour. But before you pour the cap remember to plug the ramrod hole. I forgot to do that once and had to redrill the hole out because my form leaked pewter down into the ramrod hole. now is also a good time to plug any holes that you may have with clay. I use a clay that is used for casting steel. You probably also notice that my forestock is wide in the picture. I still need to shape things up here. Unfortunately when i started drilling the ramrod hole the drill bit jumped and tore out a piece of wood along the ramrod channel. I tried gluing it back, then when I shape the upper forestock, it tore out again. so It is gone forever now. I was not going to have an entry pipe, but I think I need it now.

[M Tornichio]

this is how everything looks after the pour. I had a hot bolt that I inserted into the barrel hole to keep the barrel warm to aid in keeping the pewter flowing. I accidently poured a little too much and it actually came over the top of the barrel and locked the bolt in place. I was able to work everything out though, after I started to shape things up. I should mention the differnt things that can be used. I have bought the lead free pewter from the supply stores and it works well. When I took the Hershel House class years ago, he had something that was extremely soft that we used. It was probably mostly lead and worked well. The only thing about it was that when you worked the wood down, it was so soft that it would move around on you. I suppose pure lead would work, but might not be the best case. I did not have any of the pewter at this time, so I used the lead free solder that you buy at the store. It is mostly tin and has a small amount of copper. It was what I had, and I wanted to see if it work. It poured nicely. Melted quick, needed less heat. It's hardness is close to the very hard maple that I am using to build the rifle. I will see how it looks after the rifle is finished though. hopefully not too shiney.



Finally the end product



I still need to shape the entire forend down, but you get the idea of what it looks like after taking down even with the wood. I think your own mind is the only limit to the designs that are possible when casting a cap.
Hope you all enjoy.

[chuck c.]

Thanks again for taking the time to share your talent with those of us who still have a lot to learn! A short time ago there was a series of posts that said something to the effect that this site wasn't as stimulating as it had been in the past, but in my opinion you've turned that around. I'm sure this adds a lot of work to your project and I wanted you to know it was appreciated. Looking at the finished work of the talented ALR members is inspirational, but it's not nearly as informative as seeing the work in progress and how it was done. I hope to see more!

[JKL]

Marc,
Thanks again for the pictures.  Good tutorial and a nice job on that muzzle cap!  I did my first poured muzzle cap last week much the same way you did except that I had the forestock too close to finished.  Like you said, having it that close doesn't leave a lot of room to file out the muzzle cap the way it should be.  I didn't really know what to expect.  I wish I would have procrastinated (like I usually do) until I saw your tutorial.  Good job.

[Ken G]

Marc,
Nice job and great tutorial.  Thanks for taking the time to take the pictures and post them.  I hope Acer will move this to the tutorial section after a few days of being here for all to see.
Ken

[lew wetzel]

marc,
  what a great tutorial...really like the basic design.thanks for sharing.

[DutchGramps]

Very well explained, have already put it in my notes 
Question: has this kind of poured nosecap ever been used on Old World Jaegers? Or is it typical of the New World, and if so: why?
Enquiring mind wants to know...

[Tim Crosby]

 Nice job Marc, keep em' commin.

Tim C.

PS: If you frequent yard sales of flea markets keep you eye pealed for pewter, cups, mugs, plates, etc... I picked up 8 mugs for .75 cents each (they wanted $1) that will keep me in pewter for a long time. It also gives you a chance to see what color it will change to. Some of the new stuff being sold for pouring seams to stay shinny a long time. I have also used wheel weights with good success. TC

[acorn20]

Marc,

Great job on the tutorial.  I can honestly say that I can't recall seeing a poured nosecap in that design.  Most of the ones I've seen are solid.  Is there a certain "school" or area of the country that used poured nosecaps like this in lieu of sheet metal?

Dan

[M Tornichio]

Very well explained, have already put it in my notes 
Question: has this kind of poured nosecap ever been used on Old World Jaegers? Or is it typical of the New World, and if so: why?
Enquiring mind wants to know...

I am unsure about old world jaegers. To be honest I really have not spent the time studing them as much.

[M Tornichio]

Some of the new stuff being sold for pouring seams to stay shinny a long time. I have also used wheel weights with good success. TC

I will let you know how this one turns out after finished. I was hoping that it would take on a nice patina after staining. Time will tell though. I found mugs in my basement that were here when I moved into my house. I though they may have been pewter, but there was something that just did not seem right. So I looked up the company on the internet that made them and it turns out they were partly made of aluminum and new they cost $40 each. So I decided not to use it. I will keep my eyes open at yard sales.
Thanks for the tip.

[M Tornichio]

Marc,

Great job on the tutorial.  I can honestly say that I can't recall seeing a poured nosecap in that design.  Most of the ones I've seen are solid.  Is there a certain "school" or area of the country that used poured nosecaps like this in lieu of sheet metal?

Dan

Dan, I am not sure how often they were done. I think in general it was later period guns. I have seen quite a few ohio rifle with them, but most of them were solid with very little or no wood showing through. I think shumway has a rifle that has a small diamond of wood surrounded by pewter. I have seen it mostly on half stock rifles. Good question, I wish I could better answer it.
Marc

[Darrin McDonal]

Wow!! I wish this was posted a month ago when I poured mine for the first time. The 1st attempt didnt fill all the grooves so I managed to pry it out and give it another go and it went a tiny bit better but still not perfect and I think if I keep prying the stuff out I am goung to get a chunk of wood next time. I think I didnt cut the grooves / channels deep enough. What are some options for getting it out again with little rick of wood damage? Anything?
Darrin

[Randy Hedden]

Wow!! I wish this was posted a month ago when I poured mine for the first time. The 1st attempt didnt fill all the grooves so I managed to pry it out and give it another go and it went a tiny bit better but still not perfect and I think if I keep prying the stuff out I am goung to get a chunk of wood next time. I think I didnt cut the grooves / channels deep enough. What are some options for getting it out again with little rick of wood damage? Anything?
Darrin

Darrin,

You don't have to pry the old pewter out and start again. You can just dam up the area that didn't get filled with pewter and pour some more pewter into the dammed up area. You can use modeling clay to build the dams. The new pour wil stick to the pewter that is already there. Sfter you clean it up with a file you should not be able to see where hte second pour was.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[M Tornichio]

Another tip, depending on how bad the mess up is, you can pour melted lead over it and will remove everything. I have not tried this, but I picked up this tip from a guy at our ohio log cabin shop classes. It make since since the lead melts at a higher temp.

I tried bumping the side of the rifle while pouring this time and it seemed to work better at filling everything in. Seemed to get the air bubbles out.
I have done the pry it out before, not real easy.
I think I would try Randy trick first.

[Darkhorse]

If you have an area that needs the wood slot deepened then you can try to melt enough out of the problem area with a small soldering iron. After cutting your slot a little deeper then go with Randy's method.     It works.

I would also recommend not to leave the forend way oversize. True, it leaves more wood and pewter to work down to shape but its harder to judge how deep your slots are. Beleive me,  its a bad time to find your slots aren't deep enough just as the forend reaches finished dimensions.

[Roger Fisher]

Wow!! I wish this was posted a month ago when I poured mine for the first time. The 1st attempt didnt fill all the grooves so I managed to pry it out and give it another go and it went a tiny bit better but still not perfect and I think if I keep prying the stuff out I am goung to get a chunk of wood next time. I think I didnt cut the grooves / channels deep enough. What are some options for getting it out again with little rick of wood damage? Anything?
Darrin

Rather than repeat the entire horror story I'll simply say that been there and done that!  After watching Herschel's tape (with that @!*% rooster drowning out the sound og yeah and the rain on his tin roof) I decided If he could do it so could I!!
In any case I failed also to cut the grooves (on a 45 degree angle with the stock) deep enough the pour failed to fill.  Had to come out the way it went in!  Stuck it in the kitchen oven and melted it out then recut and repoured came out fine.


Ever read the story and the cartoon showing the skinny ol guy running around the butcher block in a robe trying to blow out the flames on his pride and joy (stock)??

Guess who/whom or what ever!

[Daryl]

As far as bumping the rifle to get the lead to fill better, try short sharp blows immediately after pouring, using a leather or wooden knob on a hammer. A chunk of stove wood or hammer handle will suffice, but a hammer. The sharr light blows will 'jar' the air bubbles out. Must be quick about it.

[Randy Hedden]

As far as bumping the rifle to get the lead to fill better, try short sharp blows immediately after pouring, using a leather or wooden knob on a hammer. A chunk of stove wood or hammer handle will suffice, but a hammer. The sharr light blows will 'jar' the air bubbles out. Must be quick about it.

If one doesn't tap or slap the gun while pouring the hot molten pewter any air trapped below the pewter can become super heated and blow the molten pewter out of the mold like hot lava from a volcano. The air becomes super heated and expands to the point that it will throw the hot molten pewter out of the mold through the same place it was poured into.

I know Hershel House has had this happen to him a couple of times and my buddy Todd Daggett had it happen while pouring pewter for a knife handle. Todd had the molten pewter hit him right in the face and pewter that landed on his eyelids sealed one of his eyes shut as well as producing several really bad burns on his face.

Yes, you should tap the gun with a hammer handle or slap the gun with your hand, but I would advise you to start the tapping/slapping while you are pouring the pewter and not wait until after the pewter pour has been completed.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[northup87]

This is a tip that I just picked up today actually, as I am pouring a muzzle cap on a rifle that I am building, Its has a much larger than standard end cap with several different angles terminating to my ramrod channel so I was forced to do more than one pour....  Heating your area with a heat gun is a good tip just to help your pewter flow better into the smaller areas if your trying for a fingered cap or aid in the bonding to lessen the chance of a cold seam. On my second pour I ran into some fault lining in my pour while filing it down, by taking a standard 10,000 rpm hand grinder  and a wore out 100 grit sanding disc, I was able to actually move pewter almost like buffing out a scratch in a car from one seam to another.... As long as its a woren out sanding disc it actually heats the surface of the pewter up to slightly move it around from one area to another, dont know if itll help anyone out just kinda wanted to finally be able to post something after reading on here for so long.....  A.J.

[T*O*F]

The air becomes super heated and expands to the point that it will throw the hot molten pewter out of the mold through the same place it was poured into.

Something else to consider.  Kiln dried stocks have 7% moisture.  Air dried may have more, or kiln dried can too depending on where you live.  What you mistake for super heated air could be steam and you know what a drop of sweat in your lead pot does.  Also, very often, if you heat a barrel it will sweat.  Since both of these things are hidden, you would never know until it's too late.

[Ken G]

TOF,
I agree with you on the moisture content of the wood.  I poured one hawk handle 3 times before I got a good pour.  Each time the pewter bubbled like crazy leaving voids in the pewter.  I poured 2 other handles at the same time and they were both perfect on the first pour.  I chalked it up to moisture in the wood. 
Ken

[Randy Hedden]

Something else to consider.  Kiln dried stocks have 7% moisture.  Air dried may have more, or kiln dried can too depending on where you live.  What you mistake for super heated air could be steam and you know what a drop of sweat in your lead pot does.  Also, very often, if you heat a barrel it will sweat.  Since both of these things are hidden, you would never know until it's too late.

Dave,

I don't believe it is the moisture in the wood or sweating of the barrel that causes the eruption because tapping/slapping the gun would have no effect on the eruption of the pewter if it was caused by moisture of any kind.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com