Points of interest

[Pete G.]

I've noticed a lot of new builders post a picture and ask for comment, and most guys are too polite or don't want to discourage a newbie, so the critique tends to be not really helpful, so I thought I would ask folks to post things that you see that are potential trouble spots for a new guy. We can all look at our first builds and they jump out at us now, but if we knew to look for a few things we could have avoided them back then.
I'll start with :
•   Lock panels thicker than 1/8” above and below lock
•   Hump of wood left behind left oblique flat of barrel at the wrist
•   Buttplate not aligned with centerline of comb
•   Forestock too thick and/or flats on top edge at barrel

[Rasch Chronicles]

There's an older post with dozens of those suggestions, let me see if I can find it again. I think it's from 2009 or so...

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
Mama Domicenti’s Kitchen: Albert Tries Market Hunting
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

[Rasch Chronicles]

Found it!

Pitfalls in Gunbuilding

 A nice and thorough cumulitative effort!

Best regards,
Albert “Yes, I am still in Afghanistan!” Rasch
The Range Reviews: Recreating the 18th Century Powder Horn
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

[mbokie5]

I've noticed a lot of new builders post a picture and ask for comment, and most guys are too polite or don't want to discourage a newbie, so the critique tends to be not really helpful, so I thought I would ask folks to post things that you see that are potential trouble spots for a new guy. We can all look at our first builds and they jump out at us now, but if we knew to look for a few things we could have avoided them back then.
I'll start with :
•   Lock panels thicker than 1/8” above and below lock
•   Hump of wood left behind left oblique flat of barrel at the wrist
•   Buttplate not aligned with centerline of comb
•   Forestock too thick and/or flats on top edge at barrel

Oh, this is good. And just when I need it. Haven't got my kit yet, but not too long, I think.

The buttplate/center of comb thing sounds like it might be easy to mess up.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You need to establish a centre line right around your stock wood, and keep it during the entire build.  There is no reason to have the butt plate return pointing off to one side, if you maintain your centre lines.

[mbokie5]

You need to establish a centre line right around your stock wood, and keep it during the entire build.  There is no reason to have the butt plate return pointing off to one side, if you maintain your centre lines.

Is that accomplished by drawing a line? Or just by knowing where it is?

[mbokie5]

There are several books, often mentioned in this Forum that deal with how to lay out and build a gun.  I cannot imagine anyone investing hundreds of dollars in components and starting to cut wood without reading these books thoroughly and understanding the basic steps.  The centerline that Taylor describes is somewhere around step 1.

Gee thanks for your warm answer.

Guess what, I have those books. since it is unwise to assume, I didn't.


But you did.

[Rootsy]

I'll have something in a couple of weeks for you guys to critique.  I don't care for all of the "niceties" when obviously there are areas that can be improved upon or handled differently either because I lack skill or finesse in those areas or just don't realize that something is incorrect relative to how it was handled historically.   One never learns if they don't realize they are wrong in the first place.

It would be beneficial if anyone presenting an arm would make their design intent and execution known.  If it isn't meant to mimic a certain school or specific historical piece then there is no sense in critiquing it as such but rather about workmanship.  The more historical pieces I view the more I realize that not all masters were really masters or followed the status quo.

[Pete G.]

Thanks for the refresher, Albert. I realized I resurrected my own topic.

[Rasch Chronicles]

The more historical pieces I view the more I realize that not all masters were really masters or followed the status quo.

Ain't that a fact.

Granted, I have yet to build my first muzzleloader, but boy have I been studying. Even the akcnowledged luminaries on this forum frequently mention how poorly executed a particular historic piece is, or how the design falls short.

Unless you are making a muzzleloader to copy a particular school or "master," why not stick to the time period? I mean if you were a gunsmith in the 18th century, might you not pick and choose from among the available barrels, stocks, and locks that were available to you? In other words, there had to be more smiths than Beck, Haines, and the other half dozen everyone talks about, and they must have had their own idiosyncresies.

But a well sculpted wrist is still a well sculpted wrist regardless of who made it, proportioned panels executed properly are nice no matter who made them or when they were made.

Rootsy hit it right on the head!

Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
Wild Pigs: Not Tough Enough to Massey Coal
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

[smallpatch]

mbokie5,

I know I need to be diplomatic about this, so here goes. 

Your response to Daniels suggestion, (which I took as a general statement) shows that you were somewhat offended, (and took personal) what he said.

That being said, this is one of the main reasons that members of this board are so reluctant to truly "critique" guns presented here.  We fear we might offend, or discourage those just getting into the building game.  The problem, is you just don't know how the person receiving the critique will take it. 

That is a result we don't want.  However, I can't tell you, how much I've learned through, well presented, well accepted criticism of my work, right here on this site.



I hope this makes sense.

[smallpatch]

Guys, the real question is..... whether or not our presenter is looking for "real, honest critique" so he can learn and improve, or just a pat on the back for his achievement.

[mbokie5]

mbokie5,

I know I need to be diplomatic about this, so here goes. 

Your response to Daniels suggestion, (which I took as a general statement) shows that you were somewhat offended, (and took personal) what he said.

That being said, this is one of the main reasons that members of this board are so reluctant to truly "critique" guns presented here.  We fear we might offend, or discourage those just getting into the building game.  The problem, is you just don't know how the person receiving the critique will take it. 

That is a result we don't want.  However, I can't tell you, how much I've learned through, well presented, well accepted criticism of my work, right here on this site.



I hope this makes sense.

It does make sense.

And this is good of you to mediate and I thank you.

but if people are to ask questions on a board for these sorts of questions, then some will be stupid.

I can't make up for my ignorance by staying ignorant. So I likely will ask some stupid questions.

You are welcome to run down my work should I show it. And I won't care about that.

Cheers!

[eagle24]

Pete,

I'm still a new builder now working on rifle #2, but a couple of things I learned the hard way building my first rifle were:

1. The importance of sequence in building a rifle.  I did a couple of things out of sequence on my first rifle that made later tasks more difficult.
2.  Kinda hand in hand with #1, but keep things square as long as you can.  Once a square surface is gone it is no longer the reference point it once was.

[Roger Fisher]

You need to establish a centre line right around your stock wood, and keep it during the entire build.  There is no reason to have the butt plate return pointing off to one side, if you maintain your centre lines.

Is that accomplished by drawing a line? Or just by knowing where it is?

Draw the line and preserve it threw out the job.

[mbokie5]

You need to establish a centre line right around your stock wood, and keep it during the entire build.  There is no reason to have the butt plate return pointing off to one side, if you maintain your centre lines.

Is that accomplished by drawing a line? Or just by knowing where it is?

Draw the line and preserve it threw out the job.

Thank you Sir.

I just got my receipt from Blackpowder Barbie for my first kit. So I'm guessing it's been shipped. I'm like a kid without his new toy.

[greybeard]

mbokie.  Welcome to this site.   Keep an OPEN MIND.  When you post some of your pics you are going to recieve some critique especially if asked for.  As a new builder there will no doubt be room for improvement in your work. Take the members comments seriously and analize them for your own learning curve.
    When someone gives a favorable comment , SMILE!!!.. You earned it.
Looking foreward to seeing your build as you progress.
     Cheers    Bob  (greybeard)

[Rootsy]

I find pre-carved stocks, especially with the fore-end shaped (extra prone to warp, twist, etc), to be more difficult to establish a proper C/L on than a blank.  If you don't know where the cast-off (on) begins it is difficult to establish that C/L from the barrel breech to the butt.   I like to snap C/L's both top and bottom (especially on a pre-carve) before I ever do anything else, it lets you see if everything is truly on center such as the ramrod channel and entry thimble, so on and so forth. 

I learned that last lesson the hard way.

[smallpatch]

mbokie5,

What kit Chamber's kit are you getting?  I have built SEVERAL, and they are wonderful component sets.
Remember, they are component sets, not snap together kits.
Take your time, do things in order, measure twice cut once, and you'll have a great little gun when finished.
Great kits, great people.

[mbokie5]

mbokie.  Welcome to this site.   Keep an OPEN MIND.  When you post some of your pics you are going to recieve some critique especially if asked for.  As a new builder there will no doubt be room for improvement in your work. Take the members comments seriously and analize them for your own learning curve.
    When someone gives a favorable comment , SMILE!!!.. You earned it.
Looking foreward to seeing your build as you progress.
     Cheers    Bob  (greybeard)

Roger that!

I'll be less tender in the future.

Thanks Greybeard or Bob.

[mbokie5]

mbokie5,

What kit Chamber's kit are you getting?  I have built SEVERAL, and they are wonderful component sets.
Remember, they are component sets, not snap together kits.
Take your time, do things in order, measure twice cut once, and you'll have a great little gun when finished.
Great kits, great people.

The one I hope to see fairly soon is the Early Lancaster Pennsylvania in .54 Cal.

The one I hope to get in January is the New England Colonial fowler in 10 gauge.

I found them to be great folks and as friendly as they come.

[mbokie5]

I find pre-carved stocks, especially with the fore-end shaped (extra prone to warp, twist, etc), to be more difficult to establish a proper C/L on than a blank.  If you don't know where the cast-off (on) begins it is difficult to establish that C/L from the barrel breech to the butt.   I like to snap C/L's both top and bottom (especially on a pre-carve) before I ever do anything else, it lets you see if everything is truly on center such as the ramrod channel and entry thimble, so on and so forth. 

I learned that last lesson the hard way.

Learning the hard way is my greatest fear. I've done that a lot. More than the other way. so I want to get this right, if I can, first time. The stock comes too dear to burn it.

[b bogart]

Hey mbokie, it will take serious mistakes to turn it to firewood. Most can be addressed and you will find the ones that provide feedback will also be the first ones to suggest solutions to your problems! I submitted one a bit ago and did not get the amount of negative feedback I anticipated. I'm happy if the good guys here critique my projects, then I know what to work on for the next  one. Besides I gort a thick hide ( to match my head)!

[mbokie5]

Hey mbokie, it will take serious mistakes to turn it to firewood. Most can be addressed and you will find the ones that provide feedback will also be the first ones to suggest solutions to your problems! I submitted one a bit ago and did not get the amount of negative feedback I anticipated. I'm happy if the good guys here critique my projects, then I know what to work on for the next  one. Besides I gort a thick hide ( to match my head)!

Well, I was tender on a stupid question. but once the stock is up for critique, I understand the necessity for honesty. And sometimes the truth will hurt. I doubt it will bother me then.

I'll likely ask more stupid questions as well.

Thanks Bud.

[smallpatch]

mbokie,

I've built both of those guns, more than once.  They are great kits.
They both make really great guns.