Wade's first one_ pics/completed

[WadePatton]

[editor Wade's note: this is an ongoing saga where the Author takes too much time to do everything  .  Be ready for long jumps and pauses in the action.  The most recent update is almost one-year after the previous posts]
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mini-intro:  i'm Wade and have always liked BP shooting since my first generic, imported, hawken semi-replica circa 1988.  But i'd never got around to pursuing it as i did smokeless reloading and small time competition shooting.  i won some trophies and do my own smithing-short of bbl fitting/chambering only.  i'm a metal head with a modicum of experience in most areas of metal work and fabrication.  

So I got interested in going to the "next level" as some point and eventually in about 2008 or 09 i chatted up some "local" gun gurus, plus my good friend with years of professional "living history" work behind him.  I got the catalogs and found the websites and bought some parts.  I got deevorced in there somewhere-and life got scrambled.

The Rifle:

NOW, I'm less scrambled and scraped together enough money to send off to Freddie Harrison for some wood.  I would have loved to have made the 420-mile round trip, but that takes all day and is less money that i could spend on fiddleback.  So Pat and Freddie have the money and will ship me a hunk of something, and I've turned my attention back to the Colerain 44" bbl [edit: it's a 42" bbl]
.  This thing has been "browning i the corner for two, maybe three years now.  If only Ida thought to have cleaned it up first thing--the browning would be beneficial.  

I started on the BBL, no idea that much filing would be necessary.  Got r Did in three days.  Yanked the plug today...my gosh what a beautiful bore.  Fit was good, so I polished the face of the plug and left it lucy.

Tomorrow or the next day I'll get back on the lock.  Been trying to get the pan/cover to fit up nicely.  When I'm satisfied with that I'll check the internal clearances/polish and clean up the rest of the casting marks and such.  Polish up the pan too.  

It's a lock that Tippy Curtis has made up.  Looks like a John Baille external and a late Ketland internal (per my TOW perusings).  I forget who the actual maker is.  I went over there for a Durs Egg and he put me onto this one.  [edit: it's a Nock]

John Anderson is some miles South of me and will be helping me lay it out and get started.  He says he's done it before.  

Iron and a grease hole at first.  I may add some engraving/carving, or more likely, a banana box later.  The rifle is for hunting first and getting through that first build as well.  So I may be out of "school" when it's over, but I'm a hunter/shooter first and foremost.  I expect it to look a bit TN/Southern Mtn-but folks have different ideas about that-and i've seen quite a bit of variety in the handful of originals I've seen-so I don't mind hearing ideas, but might not agree and won't argue.

white lock, brown bbl and hardware.  

Probably going to fit up a "kit" trigger from Davis. 2x2.  Square guard. Crescent plate. I'll fab some of the simpler items.

I'm anxious to get the wood, but wood is not my favorite sort of work--until it attaches to a bbl.  I'm limited in experience there, but am handy and expect to fab a few tools.

I'm excited (as everyone is with a first build), but feel free to comment.  I'll get some pics up when things start going together.

[greybeard]

Welcome to the forum . It's kinda like a wealth of info here just for the asking and it's free.
Ask away and glean all you can from these fine folks.  Ask for critique on your work . Lots of the folks will see things in your pics that you might miss from being toooo close to the work.
I have benefitted from being here.
Good luck with your first build . Sharp tools. go SLOW and  measure three times and cut once.
Above all have fun.   Cheers     Bob

[WadePatton]

Thanks Bob.

Still debating to lollipop or not.  The wood may speak to me on that point.  now if i could just locate those locks springs we pulled ... a while back.

[Roger Fisher]

I like your mental outlook.  You'll do fine don't rush it.

[Rasch Chronicles]

Welcome to the forum!

Like your writeing style, so I'm sure I'll like your build too! Looking forward to your tool fabbing also, as that's one of my hobbies also.

Best regards,
Albert “Yes, I am still in Afghanistan!” Rasch
The Range Reviews: Recreating the 18th Century Powder Horn
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

[WadePatton]

Thank you for your support.  I work best under pressure-so I'm trying to squeeze this thing into service this Season.  Best case, I'm shooting it mid November.  Worst case, I don't get it done before January.  IN any case, it'll get done when it gets done.

Some folks have "complained" about my caliber selection, and that is why i stress "hunter" rifle. And I like to think that a first gun for meat gathering was likely cobbled together from whatever a man could scrounge.  And that a re-bored 50 ain't far from 54.  It's lighter as well...I stalk more than stand.  But I get the "less lead, less powder, more versatility" side of the 40-45's now.

NEXT rifle will certainly be 40-ish, as I have been released from the "big buck of a lifetime-just out of range" argument against small bores.  Back when I chose 54, I had killed a lot of deer, but no real wall-hangers.  Last year I connected with a great buck and now it's much easier to swallow the chance of being under-gunned in the face of a _second_ trophy animal.  I've yet to shoot a deer over 100 yards away anyhoo.  AND it was me who recently convinced my pal (to whom i sold my CVA Hawken-style for the money to buy the stock blank) that _50_ was indeed plenty for dispatching deer at reasonable ranges--he had been reading on the innernets...

It's still a step for someone who has slung way more jacketed lead than prb.  But most of the credit goes to those mid-morning does pulling Mr. HighTines from the cover last fall.

I better order that trigger set now.

[WadePatton]

Hey, anybody want to weigh in on the trigger selection?  there's a large and not-so-large (davis 2x2).  i suppose the smaller one would be most appropriate.  i never shoot with gloved hand-ever.  Would it be p/c?  or am i too far off base already to be reigned in? 

I don't have any of the treatises on schools of any sort and can't afford them at this point. Again, not looking to make a strict "copy" but don't want to make large, glaring, stylistic faux pas either. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wade, a practical approach would be to pick a style of rifle that appeals to you, whatever your needs are, and then study as many examples - antique and contemporary - as you can find.  And there's lots right her on this site.  Then choose the hardware and furniture that is applicable.  then make a blueprint of your rifle from butt plate to muzzle, using your hardware.  You can get full scale photos that help a lot with this endeavour from TOW's cataloque.  Now, begin to build the rifle.

[WadePatton]

Yes, TOW catalog is where i sometimes see things I certainly don't want to repeat.  and one is that big gaping guard/trigger on one of their Southern guns.

I've looked at everything i can find here and out there on the web. Can's buy books just now, leaves no money for parts.

i'll have a squared guard, but it and the triggers will look balanced to my eye.  some of my most experienced acquaintances usually report that they've seen it both or all-three ways, to do whatever i want.

it'll be a Highland Rim East of the Nashville Basin just before the Cumberland Plateau TN rifle.  My surname ancestors came from Scotland through NC and settled here-when this was "West" Carolina.  They were here before the Revolution-so i could conceivably "school" any known Carolina or TN maker and be consistent with my lineage/interest, but i'm not much on the older stuff.

pattern will be drawn on planed blank, which is in the mail. 

so far we gots: 44" swamped c-weight 54 cal, bailes/ketland-english lock (what i'm calling it until i get to talk to Tippy who is at Friendship currently), a hunk of maple in route, davis double set to be ordered.

hope to make stock narrow and neat, with cheekpiece, lollipop, crescent plate,  a hole-positioned for later coverage by bbox, iron all 'round.  no engraving or carving at this time.

polishing lock guts now and working the casting seams/gates offa the parts.  should have ordered trigger today, but things they are tight-and i'm easily distracted.  i'm getting the smaller trigger set and will cut and weld my guard if necessary to get a good-to-me balanced appearance.

FOUND a big gnarly bit of maple in the woods today.  was cutting the tops out of my lane and then went down to see how much more firewood and if there was any figure to capture or log to sell. found a doozy-mebbe-i-hope-ohboy. the tree was damaged many years ago and has grown at angles for some time.  also may dig/cut the stump-but it's rotted from the heart out for about 10 feet.

time to go get the big saw.

[54Bucks]

 Only some suggestions:
Go easy on the butt plate crescent/width with a .54 cal., consider having someone inlet for barrel and drill the RR hole. As for Davis Set triggers. Both the small and large are good. Same plate design ect. I really don't know why one is referred to as a small and the other a large, both seem to fit the same size guard. I'de pick whichever you prefer.

[WadePatton]

thanks 54.

the plate is longer and the triggers are slightly longer on the "large". 

John Anderson will be assisting with the the RR hole and we'll use his setup to remove bbl channel wood up to the minor diameter.  Mr. Anderson was on the cover of Muzzleblasts circa 1977...I have a copy here somewhere (the wonders of ebay).  He's been at it a while and quite helpful, but a little too far away for me to visit as often as i'd like.

[54Bucks]

thanks 54.

John Anderson will be assisting with the the RR hole and we'll use his setup to remove bbl channel wood up to the minor diameter.  Mr. Anderson was on the cover of Muzzleblasts circa 1977...I have a copy here somewhere (the wonders of ebay).  He's been at it a while and quite helpful, but a little too far away for me to visit as often as i'd like.

 That will get you started right as the barrel-plug face-touchole locates the lock as well as triggers should be. And the RR hole in the right place allows for the lock bolts where they belong while not encroaching on the space for lock or trigger internals.

[WadePatton]

got wood.  Freddie and Pat Harrison rock!

[WadePatton]

Mr. Anderson and I cut a straight channel to start my bbl inlet.

gathering and sharpening chisels to get started.  a bit nervous with the chisel yet.  rasps, files, scrapers, no problem-but that's not the issue at hand.

[WadePatton]

made some scrapers and sech.  sinking that bbl very very slowly. 

[WadePatton]

wood just ain't my gig.  

I'll get it hogged out oneofthesedays.  I'm sure experience will teach me how slow is too slow.  Actually, i'm pretty sure i have "too slow" figgered out.  I've been scraping where a sharp broad axe probably would have been more efficient, unless error was introduced to the system-which i'm completely capable of.

Planning on seeing Mr. Curtis tomorrow for triggers and sech.  

And i lied (unintentionally).  I thought the bbl was 44-cuz I think that's what Tippy told me.  I measured it today--flippin 42.  Never thought to measure it before, but was looking for middle today-measured 22" made a mark, flipped the scale and got 20"---#$!?  I didn't know tang length was included (would make 44 correct).   If you get to add tang length, then it'll be closer to 48 when i'm done.

Now I've come to the realization that a swamped bbl shouldn't be fitted too closely as that would cause binding when the bbl moves from heat or the stock moves from humidity--but that straight bbls could be indeed fitted with less clearance.

Methinks i need to go nuts on the bbl channel and be more nit-picky with the lock and furniture.  let the bbl "breathe".  

input?

[Ken G]

Tang length doesn't come into play when figuring barrel length.  Only breech to muzzle should be measured.  Take you trigger guard when you go to buy triggers or you may end up with something that doesn't work together.  

Ken

[WadePatton]

hunting a broadaxe too.  (seriously though, i will be building a cabin-but can hew with the adze as well.)

Yes, I ran the buckboard over to the plains (cross) of dark-fired tobacco territory yesterday.  Bought a guard, trigger, ramrod, pipe set, and a bag o' flints.  Mr. Curtis was either non-specific or overly broad when I tried to learn, but then he sells books too.  

I bought the guard he copied from an original rifle and has cast.  It strongly resembles the "tn-1-I" and "tn-2-I" on pp 335, tow#17.

The large Davis trigger set fits it nicely. I was warned to heat the guard to bend it-no problem.

The pipe set is plain sheet steel-that i may or may not complicate when i get to that part.

I asked Tip for a name for the lock he sold me previously, he spouted one off, I wrote it down.  Then he tells me tha's the name of the guy who runs the foundry where most all locks are cast...thanks Tip.  So from now on I'll call the lock the "John Bailes/Ketland" or the "late English lock of Curtis".

He seemed miffed that i'd had the lock apart working over the surfaces...what-the-hooters?!, it was _not_ slick like snot on wet glass.  It's much closer now-and i flattened the top of the pan.  It was probably perfectly functional under spring pressure, and no one would have known better, but I'm building a rifle here, and things need to be "right" by my definitions.  

So, I found a hunk of steel from which to whoop a buttplate.  Had a nose cap in my hand at Frontier Shop, but the braze didn't fully penetrate and I'll have no problem whooping one of those up either.

Still need sights, to find my lock springs, bbl tenons (will make), wood and metal finishing compounds, various screws.  

Picked up some junk to make more tools out of yesterday...here we go, back to the curly maple hamster bedding factory.

Good day for maple wood shaving.  I'm pretty accurate and creative with the chainsaw, but hope that i don't reach that level of frustration.  

[Roger Fisher]

Well now young fella your having fun seems like

Take some advice from an oldie-  Don't rush and get hold of Dixon's book on building, simply because it walks you thru the entire process, so you don't get too lost!

[WadePatton]

thanks Roger,

i did print a list of steps (from here iirc), but i haven't gotten to step 1 on that list yet, which is to inlet lock.  I'm doing as John says now: inlet  bbl, then tang, then lock is the order i'm working in now.

And i found my lock springs this morning!  happy dollars not spent.

found myself filing the guard and not cutting the wood out there his morning-guilty of gravitating toward the work i prefer.  I figger i've got 4 weeks to fit/fab/shape/assemble it, 2 weeks to finish the wood and metal, day or two to work up a load, and the woods will quake with trembling deer, women will swoon, and men will drink in celebration!

or at least the last part.

surely the last part.

i reckon.  

[WadePatton]

humidity is up there from the rain this morning.  i'll light a fire and runner off, but will stick with metalwork today.  don't want to overhog the wood because of swelling.

yeah, overhog.  (wadepedia 1.0)

[54Bucks]

 Go easy fitting the barrel! Straight down or straight up. And a swamped barrel should fit as nicely as a straight barrel. No need to allow open space between barrel and stock thinking it needs to move. When barrel w/breechplug are installed it's all kept snug/tight up against the breech end of the stock. Granted one should slot the barrel under lugs for pins or keys thru the stock just a fuzz. But there is really no allowances for the barrel to move backwards or forwards.

[WadePatton]

but you sees what i'm sayin'.  the slots can't "work" if the wood holds it tight, unlike a parallel-sided inlet.  

yeah, it'll move all over and i'm too picky.  humidity will be low and i'll put my trained squirrel back in the channel when i get back this afternoon.

If one was going to allow for movement properly, then the inlet would be tighter near the breach, less in the middle, and less at the muzzle--because the breech is nailed down.  (thinkin' out loud-not really a plan of action)

But i've dug all around here and there's no real discussion of "how much" clearance.  One thread here starts talking about repairing a .005 issue.  And a lot of folks say "whoa, that's not an issue".  So that's about all i got to go on from the wwweb.  I'll be in Tullahoma today, so might try to catch Mr. Anderson at home and "kick it around"--I should have it done already, but don't...

and also there is a guy in my own county who is traditional shooter, but i've not met him yet.  need to look him up. 

[Dennis Glazener]

But i've dug all around here and there's no real discussion of "how much" clearance.  One thread here starts talking about repairing a .005 issue.  And a lot of folks say "whoa, that's not an issue".  So that's about all i got to go on from the wwweb.  I'll be in Tullahoma today, so might try to catch Mr. Anderson at home and "kick it around"--I should have it done already, but don't...

Regarding barrel clearance, Mark Weader (Jack's Mountain Stocks) does my swamped barrel inletting and they are tight! I decided to check a couple, smallest feeler gauge I have is .004 and it could not be forced between wood and barrel. I doubt its over .001 if that. Of course I do drawfile the barrel but I doubt that removes more than .004, just enough to allow the barrel to be removed fairly easily. I have never had problems with the barrels needing to "breathe". If I were you I would try to get 0 gap between the barrel and the wood.
Dennis

[WadePatton]

Dang metal kept calling to me, have the guard all slickeried up.  It's not to final finish, but not far either.  Cut the casting gates and left the tabs--see, i been studyin'.