TRS Baker Rifle

[DL Tatum]

Congrats, Clayton.  And great job on the bayonet!  You did that fast.  I have a question for you, though, and for all those other gun builders watching this thread:  why does the stock come with that unfinished block in the middle?  I've seen that on several semi-finished stocks and I'm just curious.

Best of luck with the Baker project.  I'll be eagerly watching your progress.

Yours,
Dan

[clayton707]

Thanks Dan! I did work that out quickly, but it was two whole days of work. (I am on leave from my real job until January)

I think the idea with the unfinished block is so that you can have a square part of the stock to easily clamp it in a vice so that you can work on it, and the vice jaws wont mar up the parts of the stock that are closer to being finished.

Not so sure how it works out with every job you have to do on the stock, but it probably helps with at least some of them.

Cheers!
Clayton

[clayton707]

I finished fitting the butt plate and patch box parts to the stock.

It seems that I got a very good fit for it being my first attempt at this! I am very happy with the results...





I guess inletting the breech tang, fitting the barrel etc. is next, but have to get my breech plug first..

[clayton707]

I am formulating a few questions as I proceed with my build.

The first is regarding barrels. What is the method that gun builders use to mark the center line of the barrel for attaching sights? I can find the center line easily at the breech end by marking the center of the breech tang, but the other end is kind of a mystery.

Also, has anyone used silver solder already mixed with flux for attaching sights? Any advice on how to use it? I did buy Brownells heat stop paste, and it looks like it works well to stop heat transfer on a couple practice pieces of metal that I put together. If I use this on my barrel while silver soldering sights will I still have to worry about the barrel warping?

Thanks!
Clayton

[clayton707]

OK, kind of answered one of my own questions by looking around on the internet...

Brownells sells a "Top dead center punch". Looks simple enough to use. I ordered one, since I think that getting the sights properly centered is a very important thing.

[Jim Kibler]

Clayton,

I would not use silver braze on the barrel.  Hobyiest silver solder which melts somewhere around 500 degrees will work fine.  To find the barrel center, level the breech end and then hold a level on a file.  You can then run the file over the barrel while level to mark the forwrd sight or lugs.

Jim

[clayton707]

Thanks Jim!

I will use a lower melting point solder. I guess since it takes half to a full a minute to load this thing and shoot again, the barrel will probably never get hot enough to melt it.

I like that method for finding the center too, and I learn about it after I bought a fancy tool to do the same basic thing! Oh well, can never have too many tools right?

Cheers!
Clayton

[Daryl]

Not sure low temp silver will hold the bayonette, though. Just a thought. I don't think it would take much of a poke with the bayonette, for the lug to break free.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The Baker's sights are set in shallow dovetails, and do not need to be soldered to the barrel.
The bayonette lug is filed and polished to the same contour as the muzzle of the barrel, and I hard soldered it to the barrel with silver solder.  I got no scaling in the bore, and the rifle has had no ill effects from the dull red heat.  It was easy to heat since it was right at the muzzle.  I wouldn't think of doing that in the middle of the barrel. The bayonette is heavy and the point is a long way out there.  The lug would not survive attachment with anything less than hard solder, in my opinion.

[Bob Roller]

Taylor,
I have a customer in South Africa that wants a Twigg lock to use on a Baker representation.
I have been kicking an idea around about making new,forged mainsprings for existing Twigg locks and am wondering IF the sear and full cock notch would hold up to a more energetic spring. The point of the sear and the full cock would be taking the full thrust of the spring until the lock was fired. The lock I make for the South African fellow will have my benchcrafted mechanism.This is just a thought right now. I seem to remember a note you sent me about a Twigg but maybe I have the wrong man. I never dial a wrong number on the phone but get a lot of people I don't know and never did know.{:>)

Bob Roller

[clayton707]

Thanks for the advice on the sights! And that a very good idea for the bayonet lug. I am glad that even with getting it red hot, the barrel did not suffer ill effects. I will be more confident putting my lug on now with silver solder.

I have been working very hard on my Baker. I am on leave from work and so have had a lot of time to work on it. I have been putting in 10+ hour days. I guess when a person does that, it gets done fast, even though I am still taking my time and thinking about every move and its consequences.

Here are a couple more pics of my progress. I installed the lock. I got the lock bolts very square and the tapped holes in the lock in the right spot and done well. The lock sits on the stock nicely and makes a nice spark as the trigger is squeezed from full cock.

Very happy and excited about how things are going, especially considering it is my first try at this.

[clayton707]

And here are 6 pictures of my finished Baker rifle. I found that by studying the diagram that TRS sent and listening to your advice, putting this together ended up being not as difficult as I originally thought it might be.

I am very happy with the results and am excited to take it out and burn some powder. (I did already put a light test charge through it with no ball.) Now, I have to figure out what kind of gun to build next. This hobby is growing on me!

[Bob Roller]

That Baker is an elegant looking rifle and one to be proud of. I have to make another Twigg lock for a man in South Africa that wants to make a Baker. Did you use cast parts for the external parts and if so,where did you get them?
Anyway,a fine job well done.

Bob Roller

[clayton707]

Bob,

Thanks, I am proud of it! The parts came from The Rifle Shoppe.

http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_arms/baker_rifles.htm

Good luck on your Twigg lock!

Clayton

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Clayton, congratulations on a successful conclusion.  You'll really like shooting the Baker.
There are two things that come to mind upon viewing your rifle.  First, your front sight is in backwards.  And secondly, I read in de Witt's book that the barrels were browned, not left bright.
How does the bayonet fit?  Some precise filing required there.

[Bob Roller]

Clayton,
I started the Twigg lock project last summer and had bought external parts for 10 of them.
I listed them on the BP-L list and 9 people out of nearly 1200 bought them all. I sent number 8 to Delaware this morning. By American standards,these are expensive at $300 each but it seems as though the 9 that ordered them knew what they were getting. I make a variant of the mechanism of the Alex Henry caplocks and it works slick and fast.
The South African will get  number 11 but he furnished the external parts and wants double set triggers as well.
Again,congratulations on the Baker,a job well done.

Bob Roller

[clayton707]

Taylor: Thanks! I am very happy with it. You are right, the front sight is backwards. I must have had sight dyslexia or something when I installed it! Oh well, turning it around in it's dovetail wont be a big deal.

You are also right that historically these Baker barrels would be browned. I am thinking I am going to leave mine bright, since I like the look of the shiny version. I know not historically accurate, but maybe I will change my mind sometime. Also, like you, I sealed the pores of the wood on the stock with a modern finish, so I departed a little with historical accuracy there too.

The bayonet was kind of a trick to get it to fit, but it fits well. The lug itself had to have both its height and width filed a bit to get it to insert into the sword handle sufficiently and reach the catch on the inside of the handle. I also had to file the side of the noseplate down a bit, and a little wood off of the side of the stock to get the bayonet to slide on once the barrel was installed. I also noticed that to install the barrel, and get the front barrel lugs for the barrel keys down far enough to line up with their respective holes, I had to remove some wood in the barrel groove of the stock around the area where the lug is for the front sling swivel. Not sure if everyone that builds this kit has to do this or if the stock was just not carved like others.

Bob: Sounds like you are busy with your locks! I think that I would have no problem paying $300 for an assembled lock, if I knew it was quality and the springs and frizzen were tempered right. Better than getting a piece of junk that wont spark, and wont help fire your gun properly. It seems this is about the price that TRS wants for assembled locks. You can get a set of lock castings there too, and maybe if you talked to them you could get a partial set as well.

Thanks for your support and encouragement through this. I can see myself making another historic firearm of some type.

Clayton

[Bob Roller]

Clayton,
Your good work on such an unusual rifle deserves recognition. Can you post a picture close up of the lock??  I have had a small experience with TRS years ago when I ordered two sets of external parts for left an right handed sporting flint locks. It took nine months to get them and I posted about this before,it is a mistake to use an antique lock for a master to make moulds with UNLESS it is one in exceptionaly fine condition as is the one used for the Twigg locks that I am making.  I have had a lot of experience in actually making locks and these two sets took me to the limits of know how and skill levels I have.
The Twigg is the largest lock I have made and it lends its size to a fancy Alex Henry style of internal parts,something I'm familiar with.
If you need to contact me,my E mail is <wvgzr@webtv.net> or after 6PM EST 1-304-429-2454.I live in Huntington,WV. I do reply to any E mail that is a real inquiry or question.
I have called TRS from time to time and sometimes they would answer sometimes not and they rarely if ever had what I needed.The pretty catalog and the empty shelf are mismatched but I also realize that it would take a fortune for the two to match.

Bob Roller

[clayton707]

Thanks! For a first rifle build, I am happy to be getting so many compliments from experienced builders!

Here is a close up of the lock. If you want one of it on the rifle, I can do that too, just let me know.



TRS is slow, and the wait is long, but generally the quality seems very good. If a newbie like me can build a rifle like this from one of their kits, they must know their stuff.

I also would think that it would be a mistake to cast parts from a rifle that is in bad condition. Much better to find one in mint condition that has rarely been used and been taken care of through the centuries.

Clayton

[Bob Roller]

Clayton.
Thanks fo the picture of the lock,it is a beauty.
Can you send a picture of the innards because that is the engine that drives the beast.Also length and height of plate.
I am not a gun maker in any sense of the word but I do know good work when I see it. I can make a useable,semi presentable rifle but my specialty is locks with triggers as a sort of "tag along"item. The locks and triggers keep me as busy as I want to be at nearly 76 years of age so rifle making is rare for me.

Bob Roller

[clayton707]

Bob,
I am a young pup compared to you, and probably compared to most here. I am only 32. I find this is true with my model shipbuilding hobby also. But, I learn a lot by listening to older people.

The lock is 5 3/8" long overall. The maximum height, which looks to be directly behind the pan, is 1 1/16". The shorter front end (right before it starts curving upward towards the pan at 7/8" from the very front) is 5/8" in height.

Here is a picture of the other side of the lock:



Enjoy!

[clayton707]

And a picture of my Baker displayed on a wall in my house. I like the looks of it better than my M1 display. (Notice the corrected front sight.)

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Very nice looking set Clayton.

[4ster]

 I have had a small experience with TRS years ago when I ordered two sets of external parts for left an right handed sporting flint locks. It took nine months to get them and I posted about this before,it is a mistake to use an antique lock for a master to make moulds with UNLESS it is one in exceptionaly fine condition ....
I have called TRS from time to time and sometimes they would answer sometimes not and they rarely if ever had what I needed.The pretty catalog and the empty shelf are mismatched but I also realize that it would take a fortune for the two to match.

Bob Roller

Bob,

In my limited experience TRS is improving.  When I ordered my Ferguson kit from TRS six years ago they charged my credit card (nearly) immediately for the full amount and it was a few months before the rifle was shipped.  I was a little worried at the time,  But they did send the kit eventually.  When I had questions it was hard at times to get them on the phone but once I did they took all the time necessary to answer my questions.  I had some very dumb, newbie questions and they have always be very gracious and patient.

I didn't order a bayonet for the Fergie originally and now that the gun is finally built I decided it needed one for it to be "complete".  When I put in the order with TRS this time I looked for the charge on the next months credit card statement - it wasn't there. I was beginning to worry that they lost the order and then three months later the charge is noted on my statement.  A week after that the bayonet was in my mailbox.  

Maybe they just didn't have a good lock to work from in your case.  I am new to this so take my impressions with a grain of salt but I think the quality of the parts they made for my rifle was excellent.  

Oh yea, Clayton, that rifle looks really fine.  I have read most of the Sharpe's series so have a soft spot in my heart for Baker Rifles, it is a real treat to see detailed pictures of what they looked like.  Thanks for sharing pictures of your build.

Steve

[clayton707]

Thanks Taylor and Bob! The Sharpe's series was a big inspiration to me when it came to deciding to build a Baker. Now that I have done it, I want to build another, maybe something similar to the wheelocks found onboard the 17th century Swedish warship Vasa.

Clayton