The bag and horn carry...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This picture I shamelessly stole from Art and Jan's blogspot this morning.  It shows an old bag and horn combination, with the horn suspended by straps from the bag's strap.  The horn lays against the bag.  Now, my observation is that this is probably the most awkward way to carry a horn.  In order to get into the bag, the flap and horn have to be raised, and the hand thrust into the bag to retrieve the patch, then again to get a ball.  All the while, you are fighting the weight and presence of the horn.  I have tried this method, and didn't like it.  
When I carry my horn on the same side as the bag, I carry it so it lays above the bag, which hangs at belt level.  Thus the horn rests in the hollow of my waist, above my hip, and does not interfere with my groping around in the bag for shooting materials and tools.  Additionally, on the few occasions when I have to hurry, as when Daniel is running down the stag in "Last of the Mohicans", my right arm carrying my rifle lays over the horn and bag and prevents them from flying all over the place.  I notice Magwa carries his kit like I do.
I'm likely missing something, and would enjoy hearing other's experiences with the old time carry, such as in the photo above.

[bob in the woods]

I agree with you 100%.  My horn is just above the bag, where it does not interfere with access to the bag.
It also carries better there , as you mentioned. I find that most bags have straps that are too long for my liking.

[smylee grouch]

I too carry my horn as you do and no I would rather have it someplace else but the thing is handy when I'm in a hurry as everything I need to go hunting except the rifle itself is in or attached to the bag. I would attach it to ride higher but depending on weather conditions I might be wearing a light or heavy coat and then it wouldnt ride on my side the same. I'm still thinking of moving it,the horn, up higher but just havent gotten around to changing it as I want to make the bag strap more adjustable to acomodate the heavy/light coat issue.   Smylee

[smylee grouch]

I also carry a large knife sheathed to the back of the shooting bag so that handle always knocks against the horn if I carry the horn just above the bag.   Smylee

[BrownBear]

I dingled around with this question for years, going so far as putting small buckles on my bag straps so I could adjust the horn up and down to test different carries in different conditions, as well as mount it on a separate shoulder strap so I could test that too.

Long and short of it, I've fallen on a standard carry for me and dispensed with the buckles entirely.  I guess you'd call me a "tweener."  I like my horns attached to the bag strap and hanging right across the top or "hinge" of the bag flap.  It's not as low as this one, which certainly interferes with my bag access. But having it across the top of the bag makes it easier for me to squeeze with an elbow in tough terrain.

But I wear my bag higher than a lot of folks, so maybe the high horn some are describing in here is where my horn also rides, but the bag with it.  Another factor for me is horn size and fill.  I tend to small horns no longer than the width of the bag, and since I'm a hunter rather than competitor, I seldom have more than about 100 grains of powder in it---  I.e., my horns are smaller and lighter than fashion might dictate.

[longcruise]

I used to carry as Brown Bear first described with the horn attached to the bag strap.  Keeps it all handy and together.  But, it limits the length of the horn straps which in turn limits the range of movement possible when handling the horn.  I've gone to horn on it's own strap carried just at the top of the bag.

Looking at the pic, the very short length of the horn straps makes me think the owner carried the bag/horn very tight under the arm and maybe much higher than we typically do today.  Else, those short horn straps would have made it difficult to bring the horn up in front of the shooter so as to reach the hand holding the measure?

[Harnic]

I stopped using a horn last year & switched to a copper flask in the bag.  I was forever getting tangled up in all the straps around my neck!  This new (to me anyway) method is much quieter too.

[eagle24]

I couldn't get comfortable with a horn in any configuration.  Tried it on the bag, on a seperate strap, on the right side, on the left side, nothing seemed to work well for me and I was constantly clanging the horn around.  I have a little horn Tim Crosby made that's actually a priming horn.  Holds enough powder for 4 or 5 reloads in my .50 I guess.  That's my horn for deer hunting now.  It rides in the bottom of my shooting bag.

What I have the biggest problem with is all the other stuff I want to carry on an all day hunt.

[Warner]

I agree w/you,that low seems to be in the way of everything.
That said I have two orginal "Ohio Bags" with horns attached to the bag straps and the horns are as low  as in your photo.My bags are rather late period

[Roger Fisher]

My set up is a leather belt bag just large enough to carry the needed possibles, with the horn on a seperate cord over my shoulder (both bag and horn are on my right side) since I hold the horn in my right hand to pour.  The belt bag has a bear paw on the flap to hold her closed.   Small pocket sewn against inside of bag for a 1 finger grab of a ball.  I dislike a heavy bag (or anything else) hanging around my neck.  Although that would be another excuse for my missing the target

[Dennis Glazener]

I guess I am strange, I am right handed but I wear my pouch fairly high on my left side. Wear my horn high on my right side. Why? Because it feels right for me. While hunting I wear a bullet board hanging around my neck. Other times I carry balls in a small rawhide (hard) ball bag. I use pre-cut patches most of the time and carry them in an old Altoids tin (PC for sure ) in my bag.
Dennis

[Daryl]

I don't like having the horn on the left side, while the bag is on the right.  My horn lays above the top of the bad and is not in the way for getting into the bag - same as Taylor does now.  I see others in our group with left horn carry - it isn't for me, but a person can get used to most anything if they put their mind to it.

Like Harry, at times, I also like to carry my Dixon's (Italian copy) flask inside the bag, instead of a horn.  For short trail walks of 35 shots or less, it holds enough powder - for the big gun's 85gr. squib loads.

[Majorjoel]

An interesting subject Taylor! This may be a bit "off the wall ", but sometimes I think some things are done for the appearance and then comes the practicality factor. I keep a couple of bag\horn combinations on the wall of the shop just for the artistic factor. They are laid out just like the set pictured. Gives the place an aurora of antiquity. When I take a rifle out hunting I carry one of the wall decorations and flop the horn to the inside against my body to keep it from dangling around. This makes it easy to gain bag access when on the go.

[Dphariss]

I have used this basic layout since I was a kid.

Would never think of using a separate horn strap.
The buckle on the main strap in required as well even if I never ride horses anymore.
Longer is better when shooting, shorter is better when hunting or especially horseback.

Dan

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

My problem is that I find it difficult to pour powder from the measure to the bore with my left hand.......... but easy to pour from the horn to the measure with that hand........ It is easier to dig in my bag with my right hand...........So I carry my horn on the left...(added benefit of being on the opposite side from the flintlock)  and my bag on the right.... Works for me. But sheesh it sure doesn't look as cool as having a horn on the bag like the ones pictured above!!!

[Leatherbelly]

   My loading procedure works best like Dr. Tim's. Left horn,right bag, just feels right to me. Others vary. Left horn carried about 3 inches above belt line. I like my bag hinge to ride about the same on the right side.

[Kermit]

I've tried hanging the horn on the bag strap and don't like it myself. I've gone to separate horn straps on every one. And I hang my bags fairly high--waist or just above--with the horn just higher than the top of the bag. The problem for me was that the horn-on-the-bag-strap limited the movement of the horn too much. I expect it's in what feels right for you.

One thing I can't see doing is what I see on the range line, where bag and horn are hanging below the hip! Some claim it doesn't require so much elbow bending to get to the bag's contents. Maybe it works for standing still on the range...

If my age-ed joints still allowed bushwhacking, I think I'd carry a small bag horn and a loading block with maybe three balls at the ready.

[BrownBear]

...a small bag horn and a loading block with maybe three balls at the ready.

That's where reality crosses paths with nostalgia for me.  I'm cussed enough to force larger horns and bags into day hunts, even though they were built and carried in days of yore by guys who spent weeks or months bushwhacking or marching.  I just like the stuff, even though I'm not a reenactor.  But when push comes to shove and I leave the easy terrain to hunt big game in really tough country (often the case up here), I boil it down to a 2-hole loading block and a small bag horn.  They could easily fit in a coat pocket, but I insist on carrying a shoulder bag.  Heaven forbid that any of us would have to do things in any way other than what pleases us or meets our needs.

On the subject of horns on bag straps and restricted movement, it was easy for me to overcome limits in movement.  After adjusting the bag and horn to a height and configuration comfortable for carry, I put the most time and thought into the length of the whang attaching the powder measure to my kit.  The straps attaching the horn to the bag strap don't have to be very long, and in fact are better short in rough country.  But the whang on the measure has to be long enough to conveniently reach the muzzle with the rifle or smoothie standing fully upright.  A longish whang isn't a problem in brush and rough country because I shove the measure and excess whang down into my bag between uses.

Different folks for different strokes, so long as the strokes meet the needs and tastes of the individual.

[Daryl]

The bags and horns we carry are incredibly large compared to what is actually necessary for hunting.  Hunting big game actually requires no bag or horn at all if reduction is what one wants. A couple pre-measured charges or a small flask or horn pluss a loading block is it for a flinter, or in the case of my .69 caplock, 4 or 5 paper ctgs. along with a disk capper - that's it.

The bags and horns we use for trail shooting up here, need to carry upwards of 80 shots - that's our course of fire, some days.  80 .60cal balls weighs over 3 1/2 pounds or 80 .54's at 2 1/2 pounds. That's fairly light compared to 80 .69's at 5 1/2 pounds when I'll be going through almost 1 1/4 pounds of powder depending on the number of long shots.  Wide straps and large bags/compartments - makes things easier.

When going into the bag often for re-loading, carrying the horn on the left side, bag on right, or having the horn above the flap of the bag makes loading more convenient.

Always think that if a guy has an opportunity to whack some wolves, it would be nice to have more than 2 or 3 shots at his disposal - where-ever it's legal, that is.

[Mike R]

the only advantage I can see for the arrangement pictured is that the horn acts as a 'flap retainer', holding it closed--but in the way.  I too carry mine as you do.  I experimented carrying the bag on the left and horn on the right [I am right handed] for a while.  Old illustrations show a variety of carry.  There has been a big argument among reenactors over how old the 'horn attached to bag strap' carry is.  Most such bag/horn sets date from the 19th cent but there are a couple of possible early examples.  I carry my horn(s) on a separate strap from the bag(s). 

[bgf]

I agree that the pictured positioning of the horn looks unwieldy.  I've seen that my way is probably incorrect, but I carry my bag and horn on the left side, with the unattached (i.e. separate strap) horn hitched up just above the bag flap, even though I am right handed officially.   Having the bag on my right side just felt odd, especially when loading.  In my defense, I think I was likely born left-handed or ambidextrous, but the wonderful diversity of left-handedness wasn't exactly embraced when I grew up.  Just for thoroughness, I've been priming (in the woods) with a small flask from my right pocket, but just got a really neat little horn for the same purpose; it will probably hang on my right side or go in a right-side pocket, as it would be awkward to reach over from the left with the main horn, and using main horn to prime makes me a little nervous, anyway, although it is probably just fine and likely HC.

[G-Man]

I think folks used their own preferences on carrying.  Here are a few more things to think about:

1) I am not speaking of this particular bag necessarily, but few antique bags have survived with their original horns, shoulder straps or horn straps unaltered or unreplaced.  Sometimes you can match up wear marks on the horn and pouch to get an idea where they were carried, but more often not.

2) We tend to overlook that a lot of these bags and horns were as likely to spend as much or more time being carried on horseback as they were be carried on foot.    This might have been at least some factor in how long  they chose to make the carrying straps and where they carried them on their bodies.

3) It looks to me like this pouch could actually be opened pretty easily by pulling the flap open between the horn straps, so I don't see the horn getting in the way all that much.   I have had a few bags like this and it just depends on how wide the flap is relative to the spacing of the horn straps.  Just personal preference - I can see where some might find it in the way.

Fun stuff to think about.

Guy

[Darkhorse]

I've tried it several ways but I always go back to the bag on the left side with the horn tied to the bag. Both are adjusted for comfort and convienience and the horn is tied as short as possible while still allowing use.
But mostly for deer hunting in treestands I just use premeasured loads. Much less swinging and hanging up on bushes etc. that way. And the horn doesn't knock against a metal treestand either.
A sash will work wonders for those pesky swinging bags and horns. Specially on horseback.
BTW I am lefthanded and wear the bag on the leftside because it just feels right and I can use the left hand for everything.

[black ed]

If you carry your bag high, The top of the bag at or above the elbow, the placement of the horn would seem to be in an excelent place. the strap leanth would let the horn reach head heigth. The horn, at reast, would be located just below the elbow, easy to reach easy to hold to the body at a run or going thru brush.
Am I making sence?
saying that I must admit I also carry my horn at elbow heigth with my bag just below, both on the right side.
 I might try a real high bag placement and see If I can make it work. I think this mite work better than my rig on horse back..I've always kind of disliked wy bag set up on horseback.
Ed

[lakehopper]

I carry my bag and horn that is attatched to my bag on my right side a little higher than my waist line. I found wear the combo on the left side the strapping holding the bag always felt uncomfortible when I shoildered my rifle. to my right shoulder. The horn sits right on the flap keeping it down and items in the bag.

Glenn