Author Topic: Ebony dust  (Read 12823 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Ebony dust
« on: October 03, 2011, 07:42:23 PM »
Any dangers or concerns?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 07:53:41 PM »
Makes your nostrils black, everyone will know you're snorting ebony. Try white powder instead.
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Rootsy

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 08:39:55 PM »
If you use sandpaper on it, especially if it's next to or in a light colored wood (or any wood of lighter color than it) such as maple, cherry, etc, you'll cuss trying to get the ebony dust out of the pores...

As far as inhalation issues... Watch for any allergic reactions or sensitive tissue irritation... Other than that... Yee Haw.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 09:38:37 PM »
YEE HAW it is then!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 10:59:35 PM »
Walnut dust really gets me. Maple dust has started to bother me, too. As a matter of fact EVERYTHING is starting to bother me.
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 11:19:09 PM »
I grew up breathing walnut dust!  Love the smell.  My grandfather, the greatest person in the history of the world, was a cabinetmaker, and I grew up in his shop cutting out toy guns on a bandsaw from scraps.  ;-)
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Offline rsells

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 11:36:17 PM »
Mike,
Thanks for asking the questions.  I am getting ready to use some Ebony on an early rifle and had a questions around its use myself, but hadn't asked. 
                                                                         Roger Sells

Offline Bill of the 45th

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 11:47:55 PM »
Here's a list that may be of interest.Here is a small list of popular woods that should be avoided.
We will continue to expand this list as we further our research.
Most of this information is taken from
Botanical Dermatology: Plants and Plant Products Injurious to the Skin. 4
Dalbergia spp (Rosewoods) With “the discovery of sensitizing quinones in other woods such as teak…led Schulz and Dietrichs (1962) to look for similar substances in Dalbergia nigra and Dalbergia retusa. They found three quinones which they called Dalbergia quinones A, B and C, and demonstrated by patch tests on patients that these were the sensitizers, the strongest being R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione… They have now been found in most other Dalbergia spp.” 4
Dalbergia retusa (Cocobolo) contains S-4'-hydroxy-4-methoxy dalbergione, R-4-methoxy dalbergione and other quinones and phenols. 4
Dalbergia cultrate (Burmese Rosewood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia nigra (Brazilian Rosewood) contains R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia latifolia (East Indian Rosewood, Sonokoling) contain R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia cochinchinensis (Laos Rosewood, Thai Rosewood, Cochin Rosewood) contain R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia stevensonii (Honduran Rosewood, Nagaed Wood, Palissandre Honduras) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia decipularis (Tulipwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia frutescens (Tulipwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia. melanoxylon (African Blackwood) contains several quinones including S-4'-hydroxy-4-methoxydalbergione and S-4-methoxydalbergione. 4
Dalbergia cearensis (Kingwood, de Violette, Violet Wood, Violetta) contains a dalbergione, described as a very severe skin irritant, often leading to persistent ulceration.4
Dalbergia congestiflora (Mexican Kingwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia maritime (Madagascar Rosewood, Bois de Rose) contains a dalbergione. 4
Cordia dodecandra (Zericote, Ziricote) Cross reactions are possible with this species once sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro and Dalbergia species), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony) have developed. 4
Cordia elaeagnoides (Bocote, Becote) Cross reactions are possible with this species once sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro and Dalbergia species), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony) have developed. 4
Peltogyne densiflora (Purpleheart) “Dalbergiones have been isolated from the wood.” 4
Tetraclinis articulata (Thuya Burl) The heartwood of this species is known to contain several dermatologically active compounds including thymoquinone, carvacrol, and ß- and ?-thujaplicins. 4
Tectona grandis (Teak) The “dermatic compounds” (sensitizers) lapachol (aka tecomin, a quinone), desoxylapachol, and lapachonole (aka lapachonone) where found in Tectona wood. Lapachol has been called “a known elicitor of contact dermatitis” and a “sensitizing agent.” “Deoxylapachol and lapachenole…are potent contact allergens.” “Local races of teak and even individual trees vary greatly in desoxylapachol content.” “Lapachenole has been shown to be both irritant and sensitizing” by Sandermann & Barghoorn (1955). “Indonesian natives have long distinguished three grades of the wood, the poorest (Djati sempoerna) being liable to cause skin irritation”4
Pterocarpus soyauxii (Padauk) can cause irritation of the skin, dermatitis, and sensitizer. Can have naphthoquinones. Cross-sensitivity may occur with use of Bocote when sensitivity has been developed to related quinones. 5
Machaerium scleroxylon (Pau Ferro) has dalbergiones. It can cause dermatitis, itching, swelling, redness of face, scrotum, and hands. 4
Guibourtia tessmannii (Bubinga) “Dermatitis, possibly caused by sensitizing quinones.” 6
Diospyros celebica (Macassar Ebony) contains macassar II, a ß-naphthol “derivative that may become oxidised in vivo to macassar quinone. This compound has been shown to have sensitizing properties in guinea pigs. Cross-sensitivity to other naphthoquinones” three found in zericote, pao ferro, cocobolo, becote, and padauk are possible. “Later testing confirmed sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony).” Wood of this specie is one of the only ones that these substances have been proven to be found in. “The yellow naphthoquinone pigment, plumbagin (methyl juglone) occurs in a colourless combined form and is liberated from root tissue by acid treatment. (Harborne 1966)… Plumbagin is also found in some species of the families Droseraceae, Ebenaceae, and Euphorbiaceae (Thomson 1971)…. Plumbagin has an irritating odor and causes sneezing; it stains the skin to a purple color and has a vesicant action.” 4
Cinnamomum camphora (Camphorwood) The wood contains camphor and borneol. Following cases of serious toxicity and even death in children, products containing more than trace quantities of camphor have now largely been withdrawn from the market (Reynolds 1996). “Can cause dermatitis and shortness of breath” and camphor causes mild heart stimulant activity. Topically applied, it can penetrate the skin. 4
Milletia laurentii (Wenge) can have central nervous system effects, give dermatitis, irritate skin, is listed as a sensitizer, and is oily. 5
Acer saccharum (Sugar Maple) “This species has been found to contain 2,6-dimethoxy-1,4-benzoquinone which is a known contact allergen” 5
Salix spp (Willow) contains salicin, a phenolic glucoside, and is a precursor of aspirin, also has saligenin, a known contact allergen. Willow is also listed as a sensitizer. 5
Betula spp (Birch) contain salicylates such as methyl salicylate, Cross-sensitivities could occur in those with aspirin allergies. Birch also listed as sensitizer. 5
Dymondwood is a manufactured wood product consisting of layers of birch veneer which have been dyed with aniline dye and then compressed under heat and pressure with acrylic resins into a dense, durable, highly polished material. Aniline dyes have been proven to be carcinogenic as well as sensitizing agents causing allergic contact dermatitis.
Aniline Dye (in Dymondwood)
Warning: this dye is also commonly used overseas to dye wood to make it appear as black ebony. Unfortunately, this practice is more common then you would believe. 7
Skin Contact: May be absorbed through skin. Symptoms of skin absorption parallel those from inhalation exposure. May cause skin irritation. Local contact may cause dermatitis. 7
Chronic Exposure: Aniline is a blood toxin, causing hemoglobin to convert to methemoglobin, resulting in cyanosis. Lengthy or repeated exposures may result in decreased appetite, anemia, weight loss, nervous system affects, and kidney, liver and bone marrow damage. Any exposure may cause an allergic skin reaction. 7
Skin Protection: Wear impervious protective clothing, including boots, gloves, lab coat, apron or coveralls, as appropriate, to prevent skin contact. 7
Environmental Toxicity: This material is expected to be very toxic to terrestrial life and to aquatic life.

Note:  Our Acer is an allergen ;D

Bill
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 11:49:30 PM by Bill of the 45th »
Bill Knapp
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Offline Stophel

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 11:55:34 PM »
#@!! $#@*! I'm doomed!!!
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 06:53:39 PM »
Mike, I've worked quite a bit of ebony - African ebony - without the slightest ill effect. (that I could notice)  But when I'm working on a cool rifle, I don't notice if I miss lunch.
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Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 07:48:34 PM »
Another argument for giving up your sandpaper and learning to use a scraper.  The fine dust created by sandpaper would be the most hazardous.  Also, that list was probably made up in California where they think everything is a carcinogen except marijuana. 

tuffy

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 08:08:29 PM »
Here's a list that may be of interest.Here is a small list of popular woods that should be avoided.
We will continue to expand this list as we further our research.
Most of this information is taken from
Botanical Dermatology: Plants and Plant Products Injurious to the Skin. 4
Dalbergia spp (Rosewoods) With “the discovery of sensitizing quinones in other woods such as teak…led Schulz and Dietrichs (1962) to look for similar substances in Dalbergia nigra and Dalbergia retusa. They found three quinones which they called Dalbergia quinones A, B and C, and demonstrated by patch tests on patients that these were the sensitizers, the strongest being R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione… They have now been found in most other Dalbergia spp.” 4
Dalbergia retusa (Cocobolo) contains S-4'-hydroxy-4-methoxy dalbergione, R-4-methoxy dalbergione and other quinones and phenols. 4
Dalbergia cultrate (Burmese Rosewood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia nigra (Brazilian Rosewood) contains R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia latifolia (East Indian Rosewood, Sonokoling) contain R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia cochinchinensis (Laos Rosewood, Thai Rosewood, Cochin Rosewood) contain R-4-methoxydalbergione and other quinones. 4
Dalbergia stevensonii (Honduran Rosewood, Nagaed Wood, Palissandre Honduras) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia decipularis (Tulipwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia frutescens (Tulipwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia. melanoxylon (African Blackwood) contains several quinones including S-4'-hydroxy-4-methoxydalbergione and S-4-methoxydalbergione. 4
Dalbergia cearensis (Kingwood, de Violette, Violet Wood, Violetta) contains a dalbergione, described as a very severe skin irritant, often leading to persistent ulceration.4
Dalbergia congestiflora (Mexican Kingwood) contains a dalbergione. 4
Dalbergia maritime (Madagascar Rosewood, Bois de Rose) contains a dalbergione. 4
Cordia dodecandra (Zericote, Ziricote) Cross reactions are possible with this species once sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro and Dalbergia species), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony) have developed. 4
Cordia elaeagnoides (Bocote, Becote) Cross reactions are possible with this species once sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro and Dalbergia species), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony) have developed. 4
Peltogyne densiflora (Purpleheart) “Dalbergiones have been isolated from the wood.” 4
Tetraclinis articulata (Thuya Burl) The heartwood of this species is known to contain several dermatologically active compounds including thymoquinone, carvacrol, and ß- and ?-thujaplicins. 4
Tectona grandis (Teak) The “dermatic compounds” (sensitizers) lapachol (aka tecomin, a quinone), desoxylapachol, and lapachonole (aka lapachonone) where found in Tectona wood. Lapachol has been called “a known elicitor of contact dermatitis” and a “sensitizing agent.” “Deoxylapachol and lapachenole…are potent contact allergens.” “Local races of teak and even individual trees vary greatly in desoxylapachol content.” “Lapachenole has been shown to be both irritant and sensitizing” by Sandermann & Barghoorn (1955). “Indonesian natives have long distinguished three grades of the wood, the poorest (Djati sempoerna) being liable to cause skin irritation”4
Pterocarpus soyauxii (Padauk) can cause irritation of the skin, dermatitis, and sensitizer. Can have naphthoquinones. Cross-sensitivity may occur with use of Bocote when sensitivity has been developed to related quinones. 5
Machaerium scleroxylon (Pau Ferro) has dalbergiones. It can cause dermatitis, itching, swelling, redness of face, scrotum, and hands. 4
Guibourtia tessmannii (Bubinga) “Dermatitis, possibly caused by sensitizing quinones.” 6
Diospyros celebica (Macassar Ebony) contains macassar II, a ß-naphthol “derivative that may become oxidised in vivo to macassar quinone. This compound has been shown to have sensitizing properties in guinea pigs. Cross-sensitivity to other naphthoquinones” three found in zericote, pao ferro, cocobolo, becote, and padauk are possible. “Later testing confirmed sensitivity to R-3,4-dimethoxydalbergione (found in pao ferro), obtusaquinone (found in cocobolo), and macassar quinone (found in macassar ebony).” Wood of this specie is one of the only ones that these substances have been proven to be found in. “The yellow naphthoquinone pigment, plumbagin (methyl juglone) occurs in a colourless combined form and is liberated from root tissue by acid treatment. (Harborne 1966)… Plumbagin is also found in some species of the families Droseraceae, Ebenaceae, and Euphorbiaceae (Thomson 1971)…. Plumbagin has an irritating odor and causes sneezing; it stains the skin to a purple color and has a vesicant action.” 4
Cinnamomum camphora (Camphorwood) The wood contains camphor and borneol. Following cases of serious toxicity and even death in children, products containing more than trace quantities of camphor have now largely been withdrawn from the market (Reynolds 1996). “Can cause dermatitis and shortness of breath” and camphor causes mild heart stimulant activity. Topically applied, it can penetrate the skin. 4
Milletia laurentii (Wenge) can have central nervous system effects, give dermatitis, irritate skin, is listed as a sensitizer, and is oily. 5
Acer saccharum (Sugar Maple) “This species has been found to contain 2,6-dimethoxy-1,4-benzoquinone which is a known contact allergen” 5
Salix spp (Willow) contains salicin, a phenolic glucoside, and is a precursor of aspirin, also has saligenin, a known contact allergen. Willow is also listed as a sensitizer. 5
Betula spp (Birch) contain salicylates such as methyl salicylate, Cross-sensitivities could occur in those with aspirin allergies. Birch also listed as sensitizer. 5
Dymondwood is a manufactured wood product consisting of layers of birch veneer which have been dyed with aniline dye and then compressed under heat and pressure with acrylic resins into a dense, durable, highly polished material. Aniline dyes have been proven to be carcinogenic as well as sensitizing agents causing allergic contact dermatitis.
Aniline Dye (in Dymondwood)
Warning: this dye is also commonly used overseas to dye wood to make it appear as black ebony. Unfortunately, this practice is more common then you would believe. 7
Skin Contact: May be absorbed through skin. Symptoms of skin absorption parallel those from inhalation exposure. May cause skin irritation. Local contact may cause dermatitis. 7
Chronic Exposure: Aniline is a blood toxin, causing hemoglobin to convert to methemoglobin, resulting in cyanosis. Lengthy or repeated exposures may result in decreased appetite, anemia, weight loss, nervous system affects, and kidney, liver and bone marrow damage. Any exposure may cause an allergic skin reaction. 7
Skin Protection: Wear impervious protective clothing, including boots, gloves, lab coat, apron or coveralls, as appropriate, to prevent skin contact. 7
Environmental Toxicity: This material is expected to be very toxic to terrestrial life and to aquatic life.

Note:  Our Acer is an allergen ;D

Bill


zzzzzzzzzzzzz ???  :'(  ???  lol

Offline Stophel

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2011, 10:41:16 PM »
On the plywood that we sell at the lumberyard there is this stamp, in big, bold, black capital letters:
WARNING: THIS PRODUCT MAY GENERATE WOOD DUST, A CHEMICAL KNOWN TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA TO CAUSE CANCER

seriously.  Nevermind the Formaldehyde glue, that yellow pine'll kill ya!

When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Blacksmoke

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2011, 10:58:12 PM »
Most anything will cause cancer in California!!??   ;D
H.T.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2011, 11:16:17 PM »
If I remember correctly, the guys at the Williamsburg cabinet shop told me years ago that mahogany is a carcinogen, and they believe that is what killed a cabinetmaker that worked there in the 18th century, who died of cancer.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

billd

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 12:00:35 AM »
I have used ebony a few times, small stuff like knife handles.  It leaves a terrible taste on your lips, hard to get rid of. It blocked my sinuses faster than walnut, wasn't pleasant.

Bill

Offline LRB

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2011, 12:35:39 AM »
  Ebony dust has done nothing to me. At all, but sensitivity to anything is going to vary from one to another. You will just have to try it and see.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2011, 03:14:47 AM »
Everything doesn't bother everybody.

Don't believe you know in advance which everybody you are.

Ebony is one wood where wearing a mask is suggested.
By Wood Guys, not necessarily Californians.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2011, 04:04:06 AM »
I'm making a ramrod is all, but I plan on making alot of dust as my blank is way too big.
 I'd have had this done by now but building chicken coops and picking corn has distracted me the past couple days.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline alex e.

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 12:49:52 PM »
We just need a tougher breed of white lab rats!
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woodburner

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 03:52:37 AM »
Bill; I have "turned" wood for several years and have not seen  a list
covering so many species.  I have not noticed any effect from those listed,
everyone is different....continued exposure may increase incidence of....
The point of interest in Pau ferro perhaps could be lessened if nitrle gloves
are used for nature's call.  I will share this info with next week's Chicago
Wood Turners meeting.  Thanks, woodburner

Offline Kermit

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 06:18:27 AM »
Look up your woods here:

http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm

Easier to use since it's by common name. As for "ebony" (there are several types), a summary:

Ebony: irritant, sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust, wood/common

See below to interpret:

"Class: Woods are either an irritant which cause a reaction fairly rapidly after exposure and will cause a similar reaction repeatedly, or sensitizers which may have a latency period of hours or months and may require repeated handling before reaction occurs. Sensitizer's are the more severe, because once you're sensitized, you're sensitized for life and the reactions only get more dramatic. A bit like paying taxes to the Gov, huh?
Reaction Category:
Eye and skin irritation (hives, itching, redness).
Respiratory problems.
Nausea, headache, or general malaise, possibly even liver or kidney malfunction.
Cancer of nose and sinus. Statistics show that woodworkers have a 40 per cent greater chance of nasal cancer than the general population, but the majority of statistics on nasal cancer are based on data from 1920-1960 when the furniture industry became highly mechanized with little or no dust control methods. So don't freak.
Potency: Small, great, extreme. This is the potential of the wood or sawdust doing harm and would vary with the individual i.e., those who are allergy prone might think twice about working with wood classed as extremely potent.
Source: Dust or wood, or both
Incidence: Unknown, rare, or common. This is probably the vaguest of the categories as most doctors wouldn't know an allergic reaction to wood if it bit them in the face."
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Offline fm tim

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 07:23:32 PM »
Plan B:

Ebonize other woods.  According to attached article, wood becomes so black that grain is not noticable.  It is done chemically.

http://www.wwgoa.com/articles/projects/ebonizing-wood/

Offline Roger B

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 07:55:06 PM »
Wear a mask when dealing with any sawdust.  It won't prevent all particles from getting through, but it will minimize your airway exposure.
Roger B.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Ebony dust
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2011, 08:21:26 PM »
No worries now, I set up a fence on my band saw to rip it down to a more manageable size and turned it into scrap wood..... ::)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?