General discussion > Black Powder Shooting

bpc cast bullets for fast twist ml

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ottawa:
was wondering about it can you use a .50/70 cast bullet in a fast twist ML if the diameter of the bore and bullet match? i mite have a convert from in line to traditional style ;D a friend bought one of those in line and now he wants to start casting we are suppose to go out and shoot this weekend him with the inline in 50 me with my 54 hawken or my 45 mountain rifle or both i have him convinced that the hype of 150 grains  of powder is not needed too kill most anything we hunt and i dont plan on any safaris any time soon so we will see

Longknife:
Ott, If the bore and bullet size match then the rifling will not grip the bullet enough to spin it. If you try to patch it, it will be TOO tight on the L-O-N-G bullet and be very hard, if not impossible  to seat???????My .02....Ed

ottawa:
what i ment was a 50 cal rifle and lets say a 515 bullet

Daryl:
The .50 ctg. bullet will work just fine in a rifle.

 For the deeper rifled barrels such as I had on one fast twist Bauska barrel, I pushed the .50 cal bullets through a piece of the same barrel, heavily coned (crowned) on one end to allow imprinting the rifling lands into the bullets. The bullets were then held in a piece of "Flambeau" loading block that had the tops (bottoms) cut out to allow the bullet noses to poke through. Because the bullets had the rifling imprinted on them, they had to be 'mechanically' lined up to engage at the muzzle when loaded. This worked perfectly. With some bullet designs, and especially with shallow rifling, the 'blow' of the powder charge will 'slug' up the bullet to fill the rifling even though the bullet is riding on the lands when loaded.

 For designs not mechanically loaded (no rifling imprints) the bullet, to ensure good accuracy - nay good but excellent accuracy, I found the bullet had to be .001" to .002" larger than the bore, thus it 'engraved' slightly upon loading and sluged up to fill just fine. If it was too loose, as in a minnie bullet, accuracy was poorer and fouling excessive.

 A shortened version of the .50/70 bullet would work better - maybe a 350gr. to 380gr. design, but with the square grease grooves that hold more lube.  For lube, use one of the better black powder lubes - Lyman's Black Powder Gold, SPG or perhaps 60/40 mix of beeswax/olive oil (or neetsfoot oil)  I've use vaseline with the beeswax in the past and had excellent results, but olive oil or neetsfoot oil 'should' be better yet.  By good shooting I mean that shots 2 through 15 or 16 should be perfect with no wiping and easy loading.  You can try a lubed ox-yoke-type wad down on the powder as it may help, or not as the case may be. It may not be necessary - I never used wads.

 For mechanically fitted bullets, you can easily make up a die to fit a Lyman or RCBS lube sizer from a piece of the barrel you are going to use. Cut the generous crown on this new insert, and use the handle to push the already hand lubed bullets through.  The cake-cutter/lube pan method can be used to lube bullets. As noted, the yellow Flambeau handloading ctg. blocks can be used for bullet blocks for .50 cals. The bullets fit perfectly. Merely cut the bottoms out with a dremel tool and carbide cutter shaft - or a drill in a drill press.

 Hope this helps.

Dphariss:
So long as its properly twisted a ML will shoot any bullet a cartridge gun will.
The original twist for the 50-70 was about 40". Sharps used 36" in the 50.
But these will not shoot a heavy enough bullet for good long range performance. Sharps admitted the 50-100 shot as well at 600 as the 44-100 did at 1000. For hunting this is not that important. Just be aware that unpatched bullets tend to slide down the bore in hunting rifles. I would not mess with this other than for hunting.
If you have a custom barrel made that has a bore diameter near the bullet diameter it will load a lot easier. But this can cause trouble with some bullet designs. The Lyman 450 gr 50 is close to the old 50-70 bullet and will shoot OK in over sized bores. At least it should.
Some bullet nose shapes can cause trouble if the bore is too large.
Best way is a false muzzle that will form the bullet to a perfect fit when started.

Dan

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