LONG barrel fowlers

[cmac]

I'm waiting on a long octagon to round 54 inch 54 caliber smoothbore barrel. Been running different styles threw my head for some time now and I made a post here about 6 months ago but had no replies. I have looked at the Flintlock fowlers book and both Colonial longrifles of America books and am almost leaning toward a New England style fowler. However I wouldn't mind doing a "smooth rifle" either. I just haven't found any pictures or reference to "smooth rifle" fowlers with a barrel that long. I have handled a few with long barrels and love the way they hold for me. Any pictures or references would be greatly appreciated. I know the Hudson's had long barrels but I've already built one and I'm shootin for something a little different but something that would look right for French and Indian war events

[Mike Brooks]

You could do a new england fowling gun or a french  fusil de trait. I hope you had it made light and whippy if you go for one of those styles.

[deano]

A 54" barrel, I'd need a stepladder to load that bad boy!

Maybe look at the smooth bore parts set that Jim Chambers would sell, a comfortable wide butt plate, fowler guard and a rugged round faced lock and you are most of the way there!

Another option would be to use 1st model Brown Bess parts and claim they are frontier recycled from a broken F+I Bess for something different.

Ken

[rich pierce]

with a small bore a New England or Hudson Valley fowler is sort of off the table.  I'd recommend a PA fowling piece or trade gun as Mike suggested.

[bgf]

It doesn't meet all your criteria, but have you at least considered RCA #145?  The barrel is almost identical to the one you have, and that gun is packed with interesting features -- the carving behind the cheekpiece practically glows in the dark.  I need a smoothbore like another hole in my head, but I would love to build one like that.  Anyway, it does sound like you are going in a different direction, but just in case you haven't made up your mind completely and haven't seen it, give it a look...

PS.  The pictures for 145 in my copy of RCA vol. 2 are split between p. 610 and p. 616 -- I don't know if they are all like this or if I'm just lucky.

[Ray-Vigo]

From what I've seen New England fowlers often were of smaller bore than Hudson Valley Guns. I have a 12 gauge Hudson Valley with 46 inch barrel (Long Hammock octagon to round) that is surprisingly light for its size. Many of the New England Fowlers I've seen are closer to 20 gauge than 12 gauge. I would think 54 inches at 20 gauge would add quite a bit of heft though.

[Dave B]

I can't help it but when I hear people talk about the smooth rifles I always think of the Bucks Co pieces. I have only held one of them but it had about a 50+ inch barrel. It had no carving or patch box. But man was it sexy with knock dead classic styling.  I do remember seeing an example of a trade fowler that was in one of my books but cant remember which one it was in but it had like a 6'barrel. My english trade fowler had a barrel at about 55" according to what the stock remnant  shows.it was also a very sexy piece. I am going to make a little shorter version with an Ed Rayle barrel in 12 bore. He has made the barrel thickness down to .045 at the muzzle and is only 44" long. I will have to see If I can talk him out of a longer one next time.
 

[Vomitus]

  cmac,
 I'm attentively listening also.I'd also like to know something about late colonials.I have a 50"  28ga barrel in the works, maple blank.(Mike Brooks' pieces have me mesmerized!) I'm thinking English,but maple?Dunno? Maybe some were assembled over here? Gotta do some more research.Small library.

[rich pierce]

Personally it strikes me as odd when I see folks making English fowling pieces, Euro trade guns etc stocked in maple or cherry.  If wedded to maple, it's easy enough to do a colonial restock in colonial style, rather than re-creating the Euro style.  But I'm a traditionalist.

[Vomitus]

  Rich, sending a PM.

[cmac]

I like the colonial style myself. I have seen RCA #145 and am considering something like that but I want  to keep my mind open as I am still in the planning process. I agree the caliber would appear light on the New England fowlers, PA is a fine idea. Anyone seen any Kentucky fowlers with long barrels? Most in the flintlock fowlers book are shorter. Also the Kentucky fowlers listed there are later than French and Indian war. I would also like to forge my own steel mounts for this project. Which I know makes it a bit more contemporary as most where brass. Thanks for the ideas though and keep em coming

[bob in the woods]

If you want to forge your own iron mounts, I think you should forget about historical documentation; and just make what suites your fancy. I don't know of any examples of guns with that long a barrel, with such a relatively small bore, and built with forged iron mounts. I may be wrong , but if there is such a thing it's gotta be rare .  A Penn. fowling piece with a 28 bore long barrel and brass mounts might be a stretch.

[rich pierce]

A Penn. fowling piece with a 28 bore long barrel and brass mounts might be a stretch.

Pun intended?

Agree folks should build what they want and will enjoy.  There are some composite, "parts gun" early fowling pieces in Grinslade's book that have mounts made of scrap iron, but as noted, are often .75 bore or so.

[dannybb55]

VA traded guns that long and of similar bore in the 17th century, They were up to 60 inches of Bbl with a 6 inch type one dog lock.

[cmac]

One of my favorites is an early Virginia style. Just don't know how historically correct it would be with the long barrel and iron mounts. I may just build what I like but I wanted to research the possibilities

[smokinbuck]

I've got a fowler that is a cross between New England and Hudson Bay because I liked features on each style. It is in 20 gauge with a 72" barrel. At 7'4" overall it weighs in at 11#. Obviously I don't worry as much about PC as I do what I like.
Mark

[JCKelly]

Have what I suppose is a late-ish English 12ga fowler with 54" barrel. Friend's Dad tried to shoot it at a rabbit once & wasn't familiar w flintlock ignition time. Almost had put the gun back down before it went BOOOM  Rabbit lived. Too many thorns in that Eastern Shore woods for such a long barrel.

[Mark Horvat]

Get a copy of Jim Johnson's  Kentucky Pistols and Rifles, 1750-1850.  There are plenty of photos of long barrelled smoothrifles.

Mark

[rich pierce]

I went back and looked at Grinslade's book on colonial fowlers and there were more smaller gauge long barreled fowling pieces than I'd remembered.

[dannybb55]

The earlier guns were very long as it was the fashion. Short barrels were 4 feet in the 17th century. Why limit yourself to the last half of the 18th and the early 19th for research?

[cmac]

The only reason I'm limiting myself is that most of the LONG guns seemed to be fowler style not smoothrifle. Although there are some. There where probably more than what we have record of today also. Due to the fact that many of these where shortened over time to make them better in the brush, easier to load, etc. Not totally limiting myself either as most of what I have researched has been 17th century or early 18th. I like the style of many fowlers and smoothrifles but I am leaning more toward the smoothrifle because I like a cheek piece, and I love the overall look and feel of Virginia, Tennessee, and Kentucky pieces. Too many decisions I quess, and some historical presence may help swing my vote

[Mike Brooks]

The only reason I'm limiting myself is that most of the LONG guns seemed to be fowler style not smoothrifle. Although there are some. There where probably more than what we have record of today also. Due to the fact that many of these where shortened over time to make them better in the brush, easier to load, etc. Not totally limiting myself either as most of what I have researched has been 17th century or early 18th. I like the style of many fowlers and smoothrifles but I am leaning more toward the smoothrifle because I like a cheek piece, and I love the overall look and feel of Virginia, Tennessee, and Kentucky pieces. Too many decisions I quess, and some historical presence may help swing my vote

54" isn't all that long. What youbuild shoild probably depend on the barrel weight. Thick walled barrel should probably go with a smooth rifle, fowling weight barrel should go with a fowling gun.

Due to the fact that many of these where shortened over time to make them better in the brush, easier to load, etc

That is modern thinking. These long barreled New England guns weren't built for hunting bunnies in the brush, they were water fowling guns. Also, having built and used more than a few long barreled fowlers they are not any harder to load than a short gun, you just have to know how to do it.

[cmac]

I agree on the loading Mike. All you need to do is kick the butt out. Wall thickness should play a roll in the decision. Hadn't really thought of that.
 
I was just looking at RCA #86 p.380 vol.2. Its an odd barrel. Being almost 53 inches long and a 43 caliber otr smooth, but it goes to show that you can't rule out the possibilities even for the later guns. This one being 3rd quarter of the 18th century. I would however like to find an earlier example.

Flintlock fowlers has early and late example but they are fowlers. P.201 KF2 is a 54" 54 cal.- 1780

[Stophel]

My only thing might be that unless the barrel were made THIN away from the breech, it's gonna weigh a TON.

[Vomitus]

   I love the long barrels! Something to consider though...how you gonna pack it? You may have to get an old Pontiac station wagon to get it to the shoots! Or strap it to your roof rack...dunno?