Tools and papers for making cartridges.

[McLeanWelsh]

Hello guys, im looking some tools and paper and whatever else I may need for making paper cartridges.

Id like to be able to make them for .50 all the way up to .75

Not too sure on what all the tools i need are or what the easiest way is as I have seen several different methods.

Contact me if you have anything or any tips for what I need.

Cheers, McLean

[bryanbrown]

Go to a moving company and get the bundles of news print they use to wrap china and stuff they cannot sell the partial bundles and will sometimes donate them to educational programs

cut them in bulk cutting the width with  a paper shears (I suggest different size templates for different calibers to help tell them apart

Cut the diagonals with a rolling cutter

roll AND GLUE on your sizing dowels. When making cartidges up ahead of time glueing them will prevent leakage of powder

seal the "ball: end by dipping in wax, in our unit we use different colors for the different loads  muskets have red wax, rifles have green.  So they can be identified by both size and colour.

[Belleville]

French or British style?

Doc S.

[Dphariss]

Hello guys, im looking some tools and paper and whatever else I may need for making paper cartridges.

Id like to be able to make them for .50 all the way up to .75

Not too sure on what all the tools i need are or what the easiest way is as I have seen several different methods.

Contact me if you have anything or any tips for what I need.

Cheers, McLean

For rifles I use common 20 pound printer paper.  One wrap with a slight lap for gluing works great. Put a sharp taper on the cartridge and no patch is needed. Tear tip and put the cartridge in the muzzle and ram.  But fouling can be a problem in 2-4 shots. They will shoot very well, however. In the same group to 50-60 yards at least.

Dan

[Dphariss]

50 caliber rifle cartridge.



Ready to ram.



Made on a rapid taper dowel made from 9/16  hardwood dowel.  Taper to .300" diameter or slightly less at the small end. I use a glue stick seal the seams.

Dan

[Canute Rex]

Good cartridge advice so far, but what are you stuffing them down? Rifled or smooth?

My basic cartridge rolling advice is to start with standard copy/printer paper. It is kind of stiff when rolled and tears cleanly without a lot of chewing on it. I take 5 sheets in a pile and fold them in half lengthwise, then cut on the fold. I stack up the strips and fold the stack at a 45 degree angle in the middle to make an L shape with equal legs, and then cut on that fold. That gives you 20 cartridge papers with a 45 degree point on one end.

I find a dowel the same diameter as the ball, within reason, cut off a length of about 6", and hollow out one end into a deep cup. That's for twisting into.

Lay a cartridge paper out with the point away from you on the left. Put the dowel on it with the hollow end on the left and about 3/4" of paper hanging out past the hollow end of the dowel. Roll up the paper from the square end. Pinch the end of the overhanging paper and simultaneously twist it clockwise and push it in to the hollow. This and the spiral that results from the 45 angle will lock the end without glue.

You can dip this end in some wax for a little lube.

Drop in a ball. Better to use a swaged ball or one from a Lee mold that has a minimal sprue. It's random where the sprue will end up. You can either tie a thread around the cartridge just below the ball (classic) or stick in a wad to keep the powder from getting in around the ball.

Load with powder.

The old style cartridge fold I was taught is kind of tricky but stays shut and is easy to tear. Flatten the open end of the cartridge and fold it lengthwise in thirds, one side and then the other. It will tend to bend when you do this - go with it. Keep folding it over the way it wants to go and crease the fold with your fingernail. You'll have a cartridge with a narrow, bent over tail. You can flick it up with your thumb and tear it off with your teeth. Rolling the torn cartridge between your thumb and fingers pops it open for pouring. After pouring, crumple-roll it and down the pipe it goes. Worked for the British regulars for a couple of centuries. (Huzzah!)

If you have just the right diameter of brass powder measure those work well, as well as any copper, brass, or plastic tubing. It's the hollow end that counts.

When I compete in the primitive biathlon I carry a belly box with a wooden block of powder-only cartridges, a loading block with patched balls, and a small priming horn. Fast and accurate. Well, aside from the fact that it's me.

[Daryl]

Mclean- you didn't tell us the use you intend.  Of for reinactment, know that the issue military round used grossly undersized balls - ie: their ctgs. were quite loose - and innacurate, even for a smoothbore.

What Dan and I make are tighter loads that give great accuracy in rifles (Dan's picture shows a paper ctg. in his swivel-breech double barreled rifle. In my .69 (14 bore) rifle, the paper ctg. accuracy is the same as patched round balls - ie: 1" to 1 1/2" for 5 at 100 meters off a rest. i can go back and forth from patched to cgt. and they shoot into the same group, ball after ball. I am using a ball that is .006" to .007" smaller than the bore, along with 2 wraps of bond - about .0035" thick. It does not tear at the muzzle due to the nice smooth crown.

The tapered ctg. is handy- when you tear off the small end, there is little spillage, compared to the large diameter of the 'squareish' military ctg.  I simply tear off the small end and shove it into the muzzle. By the time the rod is out, the powder has drained into the breech. The 'ctg. is then shoved down onto the powder hard to compress the paper between the ball and the powder. Upon ignition, the wadded up paper acts as a barrier wad between the powder and ball and seals the powder gasses behind. This work in quite snug loads. In my 14 bore rifle,the rifling presses quite hard on the paper and you must choke up on the rod the rod to get it started. It's easy, though and fast.   With the caplock 14 bore rifle, I've fired, loaded and fired again in 8 seconds, hitting an 8" gong at 50 yards each shot- the time starting on the first shot. Capping is done with a backed, leather wheel capper that holds 24 caps. It is VERY fast.

When I make the ctgs. I make a number of tubes with closed ends, glued up the sides and botom folded and glued (white glue) so I have 10 or more, tapered tubes. I then drop in the powder charge I'm going to use. For my rifle, it's 165gr. 2f GOEX, then a ball, then fold the paper over the ball and glue. I don't use lube, but that's a possibility if you want. I've carried these in my parka pocket all hunting season without damage.

I initially started using these in the lat 1980's due to lacking a decent cold weather patch lube as at -40 to -50, most lubes are hard and effect ball flight.  I found the paper ctgs. allowed me an easy loading 10shots without problem and identical accuracy to patched balls.  I could then load a 3 dram 2f cleaning load with a heavily wetted (dripping wet) patch and round ball, fire that and the bore would then allow another 10 ctg. to be fired. (range testing showed no loss in accuracy for those 10 shots. I suspect smaller bores might be more effected by the building fouling.


FRENCH CTG.


ENGLISH CTG.

[McLeanWelsh]

Hi thanks for all the help and tips, it will be just for fi right now and later on re enactment when i can find a group around here.

Ill try the taper first and the english style after.

Cheers, McLean

[Daryl]

McLean - the reason I use the rapid taper is for easy fit into the muzzle and little or no powder loss when tearing the paper off.  They are easily pinched between the fore finger and thumb, much easier than a 3/4" wide tube of powder. 

My brother tried some of the French style with no thread for his Bess and found when tearing off the base, he'd lose powder due to the wide tear and sometimes the paper would tear up the side of the ctg., resulting in even more spillage. 

With the tapered cgt. the ball's weight makes them sit nose down and they are easily grasped when digging around in a pocket to, drag one out, tear off the tiny end and shove it into the muzzle., where the ball's width stops it while you get the rod out. If slightly undersize as in a musket load, they/d drop into the muzzle a bit and loading would be/should be very quick indeed.

[Daryl]

Dan - how to the .50 cal. paper ctg. shoot for accuracy in your swivel breech?  One of the fellows here (years ago) said paper ctgs. did OK in his .54, but that was the smallest I'd heard of their shooting with success. 

There might be a calibre size - or perhaps groove depth where the higher pressure or deep grooves ignites the paper, rather than merely shredding it or spitting it out as a rumpled tube with rifling marks on it, as it does in the large bores. My .69 shreads it into confetti, whereas Bruce's .72 with a much lighter charge, spits out an unburnt tube. We don't want to start fires.  Buffalohunter's .54 had about .008" rifling in his Kodiak double barreled rifle.

[McLeanWelsh]

Ok sounds good to me, ill be doing these right now mostly for a couple .50 flint rifles for hunting and just for fun. Also a .75 caliber trade pistol i just picked up. What are the dimensions on the french cartridge ?

Tapered definately seems the easiest way to go. But i would like to try both.

[McLeanWelsh]

Canute rex: your walk through is great but the sizing seems all off to me, do you have any pics that could help out?


Thanks alot mCLean

[Daryl]

Canute rex: your walk through is great but the sizing seems all off to me, do you have any pics that could help out?


Thanks alot mCLean

You need to make the 'form' like the wooden one I showed in my picture as well as the 18th or 19th century French instruction sheet, then roll the paper onto it, marking start and finish and see what the dimensions will be for yourself.  The larger the calibre, the larger will be the double (or single) wrap of paper, of course.  I'd make a number of tubes, then snip them off at the correct length with sizzors, then finish loading them.

[McLeanWelsh]

Ok it looks like i have sucess im just sitting at my desk in class cutting up handouts with my leather man. Just so happens i had a wood dowel that was .501 in my  tool box. When i get home i can start loading !

Thanks alot guys, the pictures really helped there.

[Daryl]

Good luck- you might find the dowel will work better if you taper it smaller at one end. The 1/2" is proper at the ball end of the ctg. but due to being paper wrapped around a true 1/2" form, might be somewhat oversize n the powder end to  be shoved into the bore.  Note the minimal taper on Dan's .50 cal. ctg.

[bob in the woods]

The tapered paper cartridges shown are the absolute be all and end all for fast loading when hunting.
Daryl shared a photo of his cartridges a couple years ago, and I've used them ever since. The taper iss the secret for ease of use. No fumbling.  They shoot as well as patched balls in my .62 cal moose and bear gun, and they shoot better than anything I tried before in my .75 cal smoothbore. When in a canoe, a pocket filled with cartridges, along with a primer, and I'm good to go. Keeps it simple .

[Canute Rex]

Well, I had to try the conical cartridge.

I made a wooden cone that looks pretty much like Daryl's and rolled some tubes. I did some with a single thickness of 20 pound printer paper and some with 2 layers. Then I melted some wax and dipped the ball ends of them to give them a little lube. Turns out the only wax I had to hand was the stub of a scented green candle a friend had given me. I guess they are Martha Stewart cartridges. Just the thing to spruce up that smelly old shooting pouch. 



The double layer ones turned out to be too thick, and I ended up having to peel a few layers of paper off of those. That never worked out evenly and a couple of those were fliers.

I was shooting "The Club," my 60-something caliber matchlock (.684; you tell me), with a .662 ball.

The single layer ones thumbed into the muzzle and shot about as well as I do generally. The wax did seem to help. The first shot was in the 10-ring, but the group was a vertical string from 7-ring to 7-ring, which might have been velocity variations and might have been me. I also shot a few spit patched balls with equally mixed success. I am certainly out of practice.

I'll have to experiment more with these. With just the right fit in the bore they could be very convenient.

[Daryl]

Great, so far.

Is the matchlock a rifle or smooth?  If a rifle, thumb starting is too loose - the rifling must engrave/impress a bit into the patch to spin the ball. If a smoothbore, they'll have to be somewhat looser due to no place for the fouling to go.
Glad you tried them out.
A mix made of black powder bullet lube will be much better than parafin as a lube as it will soften the fouling.

[Canute Rex]

Hi Daryl,

The matchlock is smooth. With some of the cartridges I did have to use a starter, but then my rolling technique is still uneven. My ideal would be a really tough thumb-in fit.

What black powder lube would work on the fouling but not soak and weaken the paper, and perhaps wet the powder? Besides, I love that spruce-fresh scent in my shooting bag.

I really only want these for the matchlock. The safety factor of premeasured charges is important when there is a glowing match in the vicinity. What with always having the match in one hand, the less diddling about with individual loading elements the better.

[bs2]

McLean,

Daryl got me started making these several years ago, they are the quickest reloads........and shoot well also.

You can get a PDF copy of "Making Tapered Paper Cartridges" from Roger Renner at: underhammers@safe-mail.net

This shows the tools, and how to make them.

No-BS

[Daryl]

I'd hoped you would chime in, bs2.

[Vomitus]

   Hey Daryls,
     Glad you reposted the pix's of this method. Curious to hear how Dan's .50 likes this setup.I'm all ears and again, thanks. Roy

[woodwright]

I have closely followed this thread as I have never heard of tapered cartridges before. Doing a Google search, I found a very interesting article with target samples that may be of interest to everyone.

http://webpages.charter.net/fam-strick/web/PaperPatch.htm

[Daryl]

This is pretty cool. I assume it's a Rice barrel - or made by Renner, but not sure - Bruce, can you identify?


It surely looks PERFECT - almost perfect, that is. It's so close - a bit of polished crown corners would be nice. So easy to do while it's still in the lathe - just a few seconds with 320 emery is all it takes and makes seating the ball so much easier - & without any damage to the ball or the patch.

[bs2]

Daryl, that barrel was made by John Taylor of Taylor Machine.