Author Topic: Tools and papers for making cartridges.  (Read 13811 times)

Daryl

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2011, 05:30:34 PM »
Tks, bs2. Is it similar to the new Rice Barrels or any other so-called Forsyth-styled rifling?  It sure looks nice with 8 lands & grooves.

McLeanWelsh

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2011, 09:47:28 PM »
well the 20lb paper ones i made didnt work so well, the first one went down pretty tight and was accurate then the second as stuck in there so out came the ball puller!

Ill contact that guy thanks bs2, Ive also tracked down some blank newsprint that I will try because it is quite thin.

Cheers, McLean

bs2

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 02:07:41 AM »
If the ball is tight, use less overlap................and .................not sure if this was stated before, but.

Humidity and temp affect  fowling...............the key to loading the second shot is....................do not wait!

Load as soon as possible, while the fowling is soft.

No-BS


Daryl

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2011, 02:44:10 AM »
Without rifling to collect some fouling, a smoothbore will require looser combinations. In a rifle, they need to be snug impressing the lands in order for the rifling to spin the ball. Different needs.

The US military paper ctgs. of 1840, were a .650" ball in a .690" bore. that's .020" windage each side - way more than needed, but shows some windage is needed in a smoothbore to allow successive loading.

I think the Brits used .690" balls, in their Bess muskets. Most Bess's run .750" to .800".
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 02:44:29 AM by Daryl »

Offline Canute Rex

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 05:23:52 PM »
Daryl, I'll be a pest and ask again: What kind of fouling-softening lube would you recommend for conical paper cartridges? What would perform that function without soaking into the powder or weakening the paper while in storage?

There are a few thick/waxy lubes out there, but they seem to be of the "bore seasoning" variety. I've tried that stuff and had a rough time getting the gunk out of the bore.

I was out shooting "The Club" (my matchlock) on Sunday with a box full of conical paper cartridges. I had dipped their ends in straight paraffin wax. It worked for a few shots, but developed a ring of crud near the breech. Some pounding was involved to get the ball down the last few inches. That said, the front yard of ramming was smooth.

I was experimenting with my sight picture and trying a new powder charge, but in the end I managed to knock the center out of a clay pigeon at 45 yards (offhand). Paper seems roughly as good as patch in this instance, the rough ramming being the difference.

I made a few non-lubed conical cartridges for my shooting buddy Steve. He was shooting a .62 fishtail style matchlock caliver. He lubed the cartridges by sticking the end in his mouth for a few seconds. Maybe I am too fastidious, but I'd be reluctant to do that after the cartridges had been rolling around in a pocket or pouch for a while.

And yes, the Brits used a seriously undersized ball. They wanted it to drop down the bore even after a number of shots. Speed of loading was the only issue for them.

Daryl

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2011, 07:19:42 PM »
I've never used a lube with my paper ctgs. in my rifle.

If I had or wanted to use a lube, I'd use a blend of one of the modern black powder lubes with enough oil to soften it slightly.  The commercial Black Powder Bullet Lubes that I've used with good success in BP ctg. as well as lubricated bullets in muzzleloaders are SPG and Black Powder Gold. Equally as good in my tests, are a mix of Beeswax/Vaseline or Beeswax/neetsfoot oil.

 I have had bad luck with Beeswax/Olive oil as a BP bullet lube and would not use that on a paper ctg. With the beeswax/neetsfoot or Vaseline lubes, 60:40 is a good place to start - maybe 65/35 - BW to V or Neetsfoot oil would be best - it's an experiment.

When mixing, you want a lube that hardens slightly, enough BW to be stiff, but enough oil to be not brittle on the paper.

Parafin is a poor choice in my opinion as it is not a black powder lube - by itself nor when mixed.

ALOX & the Alox/BWax mixes are not black powder lubes.

I'd also stay clear of the modern inline-type bullet lubes, ie: bore butter.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 09:49:10 PM by Daryl »

bs2

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Re: Tools and papers for making cartridges.
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2011, 05:45:08 PM »
I have also tried lubes..................dry works better for me.

but the key is:

Size matters and the speed of reloading.

I have the best results when you have to push firmly with your thumb to get the covered ball to "pop" in.

Not loose, not tight, just right!

and don't let the fowling turn to cement before you try to reload.

and #3

Try shallow, narrow lands, square cut rifling with not much twist.

John Taylor's 12 bore barrel is a prime example. [pictured earlier]

Shoot Straight,
Bruce