Web thickness

[Gaeckle]

How thin can the web thickness be without affecting the stock? Currently I am using a 3/16 web, but I'm thinking a 1/8 or maybe 5/32 can do as well depending upon the barrel thicknesss and other items....any thoughts?

[omark]

since the barrel is where the rifle gets its strength, i dont think a web is really even necessary. a friend of mine had started a rifle for his daughter and never finished it. since she would be with him and could use his ramrod, he didnt put one on it. then i obtained the rifle from him and finished it for my kids. i just soldered thimbles directly to the barrel and cut a groove in the stock. it is on the 3rd kid now, and hasnt been used hard, but is holding up fine.   mark

[54Bucks]

 I don't know how thin one can go on the web without affecting the stock. But if you go less than 1/8" (paralell to the bore), the forward lock bolt and/or the ramrod will be affected. A light trough would need to be filed in the barrel for the forward lock bolt to pass under the barrel.(not my preference) as well as tapering the RR thinner. Going less than 3/16" on the web can be done if the RR hole can be lowered (not paralell with the bore) thru the lock area, which allows room for the lock bolt. Personally a web much thinner than 3/16" really makes the stock too fragile when it comes to dis-assembly. Even the installation of keys could be difficult.

[Robby]

1/8" is my maximum, usually its around 3/32". I use 1/16" pins and try to angle it so the web at the lock is a little thicker, but even so I usually end up filing a groove in the barrel, and or filing a groove in the forward lock bolt at the ramrod crossing point.
Robby

[omark]

you can retain a lock with 1 screw or put in a phony front screw, thats what i did with mine.    mark

[Lucky R A]

   You guys that fret over a 1/16" in web thickness apparently have never drilled very many 10-12" long holes in end grain.   I think it is amazing that the guys who inlet barrels get them as close as they do.  I have had a few come out into the barrel channel at the back of the barrel, and I thanked God that they had not wandered off the other way.  Just remember you are not machining steel--this is wood work, and the gremlins hide in the wood....

[billd]

Hey Ron,     
 You nailed it!!!  Try drilling a hole 12" deep in steel and not have it walk.   

Bill   

[David Rase]

3/16" is pretty much the standard web thickness I get ask to do.  I just finished up drilling 7 stocks for ramrods this weekend.  5 ask for 3/16" web, 1 for 1/8" web and some guy named Ian Pratt wanted 3/16" tapered to 1/8".  I have done a couple of Lehigh/Allentown guns that were tapered down to 3/32" at the breech. 
Let your pucker factor be your guide.
Dave

[VirginiaSmokepole]

My "Pucker Factor" says one full inch should suffice, too bad that makes a poor rifle...   

[Stophel]

I shoot for about 1/8" at the breech, and about 3/16" at the muzzle.  It depends on the barrel and how much smaller the muzzle is than the breech.

[Habu]

I shoot for about 1/8" at the breech, and about 3/16" at the muzzle.  It depends on the barrel and how much smaller the muzzle is than the breech.

Now that is an interesting thought.  Say the barrel is say, 20-22" long, 1 1/8" at breech, 7/8" at the muzzle (no flare).  Maybe a 3/16" web at the muzzle, then taper it down to about 1/8" from the entry hole back?  I'm looking at rough sketches and thinking that might look better, but I've never built one like that. 

[Robby]

I drill all my own R/R holes, and yes I don't fret over 1/16", I just do it! There is nothing wrong with seeking precision in wood.
Robby

[Dphariss]

How thin can the web thickness be without affecting the stock? Currently I am using a 3/16 web, but I'm thinking a 1/8 or maybe 5/32 can do as well depending upon the barrel thicknesss and other items....any thoughts?

Depends on how weak you want the stock to be.
Barrel thickness is not a factor really.
I would not go thinner than about 3/16. The gives enough wood to keep the underlugs from protruding into the rod channel which I detest. If these slots showing in the groove is OK with you go thinner. But thinner is weaker.
 A thicker barrel wall will allow setting the keys/pins into the bottom of the barrel slightly, below the level of the flat and will allow a thinner web with no underlug cuts showing.

Dan

[Dphariss]

I shoot for about 1/8" at the breech, and about 3/16" at the muzzle.  It depends on the barrel and how much smaller the muzzle is than the breech.

1/8 at the breech leaves little room for the front lock bolt.
Dan

[Stophel]

I shoot for about 1/8" at the breech, and about 3/16" at the muzzle.  It depends on the barrel and how much smaller the muzzle is than the breech.

1/8 at the breech leaves little room for the front lock bolt.
Dan

That's right.  VERY little.    

[rich pierce]

It's hard to be that precise drilling a ramrod hole so I never try to get it to 1/8" at the lock bolt, fearing it will be less.  I don't like notching the front lock bolt.  A user who does not know that has been done will not remove the ramrod, try to remove the bolt, and bugger everything up.  Notching the barrel is a possibility with a thin web but that puts the lock nose high, which may or may not help the lock tail lie where I want it.

I am most concerned about the web thickness at the muzzle.  I don't like ramrods hanging out way beneath the nosecap.  I make my ramrods to swell there, but if too thick a web is made at the muzzle, I'd need a 5/8" swell and that wouldn't work well with a .45, LOL.

[Stophel]

I am EXTREMELY particular about where the ramrod is.  It MUST be in PRECISELY the right location.  Period.  No matter what I have to do to get it there, and I sometimes have to do some pretty dramatic things to get it just right.  Fat guns are ugly.  I used to make fat guns.  If I put a 3/16" web at the breech, I couldn't stand it.  A sixteenth of an inch is a HUGE amount to me.  I can look back on some of my older guns that were done that way and I cringe!  They are so FAT!

1/8" (actually slightly more, considering the barrel taper) is just enough to squeeze the 8-32 bolt in.  Barely.  But barely is all you need.  If necessary, I would rather go down to a 6-32 front lock bolt than notching the bolt, but I have done that too.   

[Vomitus]

Most interesting info. With a thin web at or near the forward lock bolt, couldn't a thinned and tapered RR fix this issue? Aesthetically(sp), nothing looks better then a very slim forearm on a rifle or fowling piece. No more "fatty's" for me. It's all Taylor's fault, he spoiled me rotten!
 I like Stophel's way of thinking!(regarding the web) " a sixteenth is a lot!"

[rich pierce]

If doing the barrel inletting myself, it's pretty easy to adjust the web at the breech.  Just inlet the barrel deeper after drilling the ramrod hole and checking web thickness with a small hole drilled in the bottom flat of the barrel inlet.

[Stophel]

I usually do mine this way. I will lay everything out as if the hole were a straight 3/8".  I actually drill it at 5/16" and ream it out with a tapered reamer I made, so my hole is 3/8" at the upper end, and 5/16" at the bottom.  This gives me that itty bitty tiny bit of extra leeway, which helps.  Plus, I just think it's cool to have a tapered ramrod...   

[Tom Currie]

Having  a lack of confidence in drilling a RR hole exactly where I want it, my process is as follows:

1. Inlet the barrel
2. Set the upper forestock RR groove in place with a minmal web 1/8 to 3/16, just enough to get RR thimble tabs in place and barrel lugs.
3. I then cut the rest of the RR groove through the bottom of my barrel inlet exactly where I want it and then while my RR is in place I glue in a 1/8 or so web strip.

I've built fat guns before also and have no desire to spend my time doing that.

I believe the web is really only there to provide space for barrel lugs and RR thimble tabs. Rather try and hit the barrel lugs with a hole in the center of the tab , I try to lay the hole right up against the bottom of barrel therefore requiring less web.

The idea of drilling a RR hole and then adjusting / inletting the barrel to make sure the relationship is what you want is interesting.

[Stophel]

I have done it that way.  Cut the rod channel down from inside the barrel channel, then glue a strip back in.  FINALLY, I seem to have gotten the hang of drilling the rod hole... more or less (after 15 years), so I don't do that now except on the occasion of fixing a wayward drilled hole.

[Dphariss]

I like tapered rods as well. In a straight hole they prevent rod bind. In a hole tapered to match the rod this advantage is lost.
So in rifles needing a 3/8 rod I make a 3/8 hole and then taper the rod to .350 or so making a tip to match. If I use a 7/16 blank I may or may not make the upper pipe larger.

The rod groove has to be aligned to put the breech end of the hole where its supposed to be. If its tilted in relation to the bore of the barrel it will run up toward the barrel or down toward the bottom of the stock. With the rod groove parallel to the bore the thickness of the forend is largely set by the entry pipe location unless the forend is made to taper up toward the barrel at the trigger guard. This looks weird to me.

A rifle with a one inch breech barrel with a 3/16 web, 3/8 rod and maybe .100 wood over the rod hole will still only be about 1 5/8 deep at the breech of the barrel. Given that a large Siler is 1" deep..... Not very fat.
With a swamp it will be smaller at all other points up the barrel.

Dan 

[flehto]

Dave Rase does the bbl and RR work and my preference is 5/32" at the muzzle and 1/8" at the breech which makes for a nice slender LR. ...especially a Bucks County.  On a Bucks Couty LR w/ a Rice "B" bbl X 46" lg,, I use 3 different bbl lugs so as to not impair the bbl integrity. Also, 1/16 dia. music wire pins are necesary as is a #6-32 front lock bolt for these thin webs. Have been trying to design a "faux" front lock bolt, but somehow have been getting by w/ what I've been doing. But...sometimes I wonder if achieving such a slender LR is worth all the trouble. Maybe, building earlier, more massive LRs would be less stressful?....Fred

[Dphariss]

Dave Rase does the bbl and RR work and my preference is 5/32" at the muzzle and 1/8" at the breech which makes for a nice slender LR. ...especially a Bucks County.  On a Bucks Couty LR w/ a Rice "B" bbl X 46" lg,, I use 3 different bbl lugs so as to not impair the bbl integrity. Also, 1/16 dia. music wire pins are necesary as is a #6-32 front lock bolt for these thin webs. Have been trying to design a "faux" front lock bolt, but somehow have been getting by w/ what I've been doing. But...sometimes I wonder if achieving such a slender LR is worth all the trouble. Maybe, building earlier, more massive LRs would be less stressful?....Fred

Make a wood screw with a flat head then put it in the very front of the lock inlet and put a hook on the front of the plate to go under the screw head.. This is how the English used one lock bolt on the late flint guns.

Dan