New build in progress

[Fred]

Some builders copy and some create, there should be plenty of room for everyone but sometimes I have to wonder.

[Shreckmeister]

Good question.  That triggerguard wouldn't have been my choice either.

[Swampwalker]

As I mentioned above, no question Steve's a very talented craftsman, with a mastery of carving and engraving.  What I think some, including me, are alluding to is what we see as a mix of 'schools' - Bucks, Lancaster, Moravian, Lehigh, late southern (that triggerguard!), etc., which, at least to many of us, do not fit together harmoniously.   There's nothing wrong with creating something new and different; but in this case, what I see are disparate stylistic elements stuck together. 

[Shreckmeister]

As I mentioned above, no question Steve's a very talented craftsman, with a mastery of carving and engraving.  What I think some, including me, are alluding to is what we see as a mix of 'schools' - Bucks, Lancaster, Moravian, Lehigh, late southern (that triggerguard!), etc., which, at least to many of us, do not fit together harmoniously.   There's nothing wrong with creating something new and different; but in this case, what I see are disparate stylistic elements stuck together. 

    A fair assessment, no argument.

[Tom Currie]

Suzkat, My apology to you and your friend as you obviously has issue with my post stating" "Obvious talent by someone who could really do some fine longrifle work with some research and study of architecture."

He is obviously very talented as I stated, and very creative.

Being a traditionalist myself, I  assume people are working in that same mindset given our chosen medium is 18th century firearms.  For a traditionalist, being creative and staying within set creative boundaries is to me walking a narrow line. 
 

[Shreckmeister]

TD, Well said and the clarification of your intent is appreciated.  I can see it from your
perspective as well.  I think I took offense because I know how much research and study he has
done.  The rifle wasn't intended to display that, but rather a compilation of things he likes.

[bdixon]

Is it just me or has everyone been reading as much bickering as they have read helpful information lately?

I hope I am wrong.

Brett.

[Mike Brooks]

Is it just me or has everyone been reading as much bickering as they have read helpful information lately?

I hope I am wrong.

Brett.

Just because some people don't think this is some sort of masterpiece doesn't mean they're "bickering".

[Lucky R A]

    I think this type of exchange is more helpful than what my friend references as "Bobble Heads," you know the figures with heads move up and down anytime they move.   If all you ever hear is praise you will not grow.  My wife teaches music.  She often gets starting students that have learned to play some by ear, and have not learned proper form or fingering.  Some have had praise heaped upon them from day one, and refuse to learn to read music or proper form or fingering.  Some will cite outstanding musicians who can do neither, but those musicians are good in spite of, not because of not learning the basics.   I expect to keep on learning until they pull my ticket and I am outa here....

[b bogart]

As Sly and the Family Stone said, "Different strokes for different folks".

[Acer Saccharum]

To me, this is a modern expression, very artistic and lots of skill involved. This is a contemporary piece. It's an object of art that stands all on its own.

Tom

[kutter]

Though the over all style and design does not suit my tastes,,I would not mind seeing results of the combined talents of the builder funneled into a more conventional looking L/R.

Not everyone is a into strict copys of known styles, some like to go their own way a little.
But it seems there are limits to that. Go much beyond and you end up with a result that is outside of what is correct to the eye.
Then even the best of craftsmenship and talent seems to take a back seat to the overall look.

It's tough to reinvent the traditional L/R no matter how masterful the craftsmanship.

my .02

[Vomitus]

The carving and engraving is awesome! the architecture is different,but each to his own. I'm sitting here with Leatherbelly and he says"Hello,Great Piney One!" He says he always liked Steve! Acer(The Sweet Maple Guy), sums it up well.

[Harnic]

WOW!  I wish I could carve & engrave half as well!  Nice work!

[bdixon]

Is it just me or has everyone been reading as much bickering as they have read helpful information lately?

I hope I am wrong.

Brett.

Just because some people don't think this is some sort of masterpiece doesn't mean they're "bickering".

Hey Mike,

How many times do you log in and read more apologies from people because someone has not commented the way they like, think about it.  It sounds like a bunch of old Women complaining about Hemorrhoids.  Did you notice the end of my post where I said I hope I am wrong?  I know you can build rifles, but do you read entire posts or just jump on what you feel like jumping on??  I am sure the moderators will jump on me for this post, but I really don't G.A.D.

Brett F. Dixon.

[rich pierce]

The moderators can barely get off the floor on a Monday morning, so I wouldn't worry about getting jumped on.   

I think this is a good discussion. It's drifted a bit and maybe could be split off to dig a little deeper into what contemporary interpretations of the longrifle "should be" to each of us.  To me this discussion has brought up an important question:  Is good contemporary interpretation of the longrifle like pottery or glassworks or paintings?  In other words, "no limits, no rules, it's all about execution and the response of the viewer"?  Or do certain architectural rules always apply in good contemporary interpretation of the longrifle?  For me there is one way that makes it very easy to decide.  Ignore the decoration, all of it. Then look at the rifle in it's entirety.  Still like it?  Look at it in silhouette, no detail at all.  Does it still appeal?  To be successful for me, decoration (carving, engraving, fancy extensions on furniture) should be used to enhance an already great rifle.

[bdixon]

Rich,

No limits, No rules maybe not such a good idea.  Have you ever visited a liberal college?  Not a good sight at least as far as I am concerned.  I appreciate art, talent, ability, but as soon as you get a good thing going like this site you always have influx of progress and modernization creeping in.  With that you have members upset with responses.  And then a string of apologies to read thereafter.  It is in my mind better to stay with the traditional mind-set and savor the art of what was, not what may have been or in some peoples minds what it should be now.  I am just a little more traditional that way I guess. But many will say, if you don't like what you are reading.....Don't read it.  Sometimes less is more.


Brett.

[Mike Brooks]

Is it just me or has everyone been reading as much bickering as they have read helpful information lately?

I hope I am wrong.

Brett.

Just because some people don't think this is some sort of masterpiece doesn't mean they're "bickering".

Hey Mike,

How many times do you log in and read more apologies from people because someone has not commented the way they like, think about it.  It sounds like a bunch of old Women complaining about Hemorrhoids.  Did you notice the end of my post where I said I hope I am wrong?  I know you can build rifles, but do you read entire posts or just jump on what you feel like jumping on??  I am sure the moderators will jump on me for this post, but I really don't G.A.D.

Brett F. Dixon.

I don't get the gist of you post, not your fault, I'm just a dim bulb is all. The fact that this is a contemporary new school type of rifle bothers me not. What bothers me is this gun  is not a good candidate for excessive decoration as it has some nasty flaws in it's basic archetecture. In other words the frosting looks marvy, but the cake is pretty lopsided.....

I wouldn't critique a begining builder in this manner, but this guy is supposed to be a big deal so I figured a reality check was in oreder.
My own guns could be as easily critiqued as I know there was always room for improvement when I look at my finished product.

[bob in the woods]

I don't claim to know a great deal about longrifles, which is why I consult this board and as many other references as possible. I am a guitar maker , and an artist, designing and executing decorative inlays etc in the instruments I build.  The decorative aspects of this gun are wonderful and obviously done by someone with great skill.I like them. The problem is the canvas. I just can't get past the lock panels,trigger guard, placement of the buttplate screws , lock plate depth etc. This opinion is not based on "schools" of builders or accepted designs etc. Calling this a contemporary piece to justify the design is fine but it does nothing to change the fact that it just doesn't look "right".   Too bad.  One good thing though, [ and remember, I said I was no expert}  it looks to me as if there is enough wood to actually reshape the panels etc and improve the overall look without negating too much of the decorative work. Of course, this gun may be exactly how the maker wants it ,and that is fine too.  In that case, please don't hold it against me for not liking it 

[b bogart]

Well Mike I am a beginning builder (if I can even be called that) and it looks "off" to me. It doesn't mean that I don't admire the carving and engraving skills. Having said that I would hope that when I post my efforts that guys like you will be direct when critiquing my work. I got thick skin and won't find out if all I get is "good first( second, third, etc) gun. Contemporary just means it doesn't fall within the traditional guidelines most expect from guns from the past. It's not a dirty word.

[T.C.Albert]

Thats not all photo shopped is it?
tc

[hoochiepapa]

Like it or not, my two cents...
I think this is one beautiful rifle. I like the engraving first, of course, and the carving, but "behold the turtle who never gets anywhere unless he sticks his neck out". Maybe this doesn't hold to form for purists, but for guys like me, I think expanding horizons is good for us. It's not like you're leaning against a rotted fence post and it's going to fall over. THere are those that don't conform to "the good old boys", and I think that's fine. THis guy really has talent, and I think the rifle should be appreciated for that if nothing else. Some of us could pick apart a masterpiece if we tried hard enouigh, I say just give the guy credit where credit is due.
Nice rifle, Rob, tell him I said so.

[Robby]

The controversy makes me wonder how a fellow from Christians Spring would view one of those Bedford county rifles with inlays from nose cap to butt plate, and carvings that look like  wispy tendrils? Just saying.
Robby

[Dphariss]

The controversy makes me wonder how a fellow from Christians Spring would view one of those Bedford county rifles with inlays from nose cap to butt plate, and carvings that look like  wispy tendrils? Just saying.
Robby

I dunno how about the Christian Springs rifles dated 1775 will all the wire inlay in the buttstock?

Dan

[Dphariss]

Well Mike I am a beginning builder (if I can even be called that) and it looks "off" to me. It doesn't mean that I don't admire the carving and engraving skills. Having said that I would hope that when I post my efforts that guys like you will be direct when critiquing my work. I got thick skin and won't find out if all I get is "good first( second, third, etc) gun. Contemporary just means it doesn't fall within the traditional guidelines most expect from guns from the past. It's not a dirty word.

You are correct. Its more than a little "off".
What we have pictured here is nicely carved and engraved caricature of a long rifle.
It shows how leaving just an ounce of wood in the wrong place can have serious consequences, no amount of carving or engraving will change this.

A friend of mine told me of guy who had made a rifle and asked another friend of mine, a master gunmaker, to critique the rifle. By the time the critique was finished the guy was near tears.
 
Dan