hole size in torch hole

[54Bucks]

It has always struck me as a deviation from traditional practice to put any liner on a FL. One look at a rifles breech and "Oh look, a liner, it's new!" We want to hunt and shoot so traditional and then we go late english and bush the vent. My Deringer Indian Rifle is not getting one, and I am using a post drill to run the hole in.

 I suppose each one has to decide how close to original they want to go before tradition is breached. Me I'm not ready to use only hand forged barrels,drill bits,nor hand drills only.
 As for vent size, shape,countersinking inside and or out, as well as pan flash,   simply settling a powder charge into the breech and up against the vent with a few bumps from the heel of your hand before seating the ball could  make the difference. No doubt having unburnt fresh powder up against the bore side of the vent would  make ignition times ideal, regardless of the exterior variables.

[dannybb55]

Exactly, I really like my Champion drill press though.

[A.Merrill]

    Pletch, I thought it was you, maybe not, that showed a picture that was taken looking down the bore of a barrel as the flash in the pan went off and the bore was lit up bright inside. Now if the flame DID NOT go in the barrel, I think, there would only be a small spot of light on the bore opposite side of the vent I my have seen this on U-Tube.    AL

[mark esterly]

"So in theory the main charge is actually father from the pan (by some minute distance) in the counter sunk vent"

   i can not understand how this could be when you are only changing the outside profile of the liner. the distance from the flash to the powder don't change a lick.  to do that you would need to change the INSIDE wall of the liner or move the flash pan itself.  or is my thinking screwy

[Larry Pletcher]

    Pletch, I thought it was you, maybe not, that showed a picture that was taken looking down the bore of a barrel as the flash in the pan went off and the bore was lit up bright inside. Now if the flame DID NOT go in the barrel, I think, there would only be a small spot of light on the bore opposite side of the vent I my have seen this on U-Tube.    AL

Al,
Here is the link you are talking about:
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/photography-through-the-muzzle-part-3.php

The three pics show a comparison dealing with where the powder is placed in the pan.  The barrel had no charge, and there is a cleanout hole opposite the vent.  How far into the barrel the flame would travel if there is a barrel charge in the way, I don't know.  That is a hard one to measure if you think about it.

Regards,
Pletch

[kutter]

Does a flash hole that is coned from the outside offer any advantage as far as speed and/or reliability over a straight drilled traditional flash hole?

Does it/can it work as fast as a 'liner' .

I notice a few guns built with this feature. Is it something that was done originally by some builders?
Or is it  a more modern approach to avoid the look of a stainless steel liner but still put as little distance (small diameter drilled flash hole) as possible between the pan flash and the bbl charge.

I put a liner in my last rifle, but to tell the truth, I'm inclined to just go with a straight drilled flash hole from now on. The delay in firing is part of the F/L experience and I'm just getting to not like the shiny disc on the side of the bbl.
ut,, they do work as advertised that's for sure and everyone should build them as they like 'em.

[Larry Pletcher]

To answer your last question, Jim Chambers makes his liner in 12L14 to get rid of the "shiny disk".

As far, as the vent shape I personally like the internal cone - whether by liner or T Snyder's tool.  I like barrel powder and priming powder virtually touching each other through a CLEAN vent hole.  IMHO, that is a tough combination to beat.

Regards,
Pletch

[kutter]

Is that 12L14 liner in addition to the stainless steel version?
I've only seen the SS version listed, but to be honest, I haven't looked into them after deciding to skip the installation altogether next time around.

Would such a thin flash hole edge of 12L14 in a liner or from an internal cone last very long from use (assuming most bbls are made from 12L14).
Not that I get to shoot that awful much like some of you folks!

I thought that was the second reason for a liner,,the wear out/oversize factor to the original drilled flash hole in a barrel from normal use.

[WadePatton]

Oh goody, a ready-made non-white liner!

The SS ones are hideous to mine eyes-quite fresh to the study of the ALR.

[A.Merrill]

    Pletch, 
        Thanks, I knew I seen it somewhere.  The 3ad photo showing the flame coming out the opposite side of the barrel tells me it's not just radiant heat, but flame also that would set the charge off in the barrel.
    I don't know if putting a little crown on the outside really helps to speed up ignition BUT it should help funnel in a little more heat and flame to insure good ignition of the charge in the barrel.    IMO    AL

[Jim Chambers]

Yes, we do make our liners in both stainless and 12L14.  Both have the same cone, but the 12L14 ones will brown or blue just like the remainder of the barrel.  However, the plain steel ones will certainly wear out or enlarge much quicker then the stainless ones.  For guys who don't like the shiny disc on the side of the barrel and are going to be shooting the rifle very little, the plain steel ones work great.  But, if you are going to do a lot of shooting you better go with the stainless ones.

[Acer Saccharum]

I think you guys are wasting your time.The flintlock era is long over with.


Larry, I sometimes muse about the flint ignition. I have a lock I have not been able to keep the frizzen from bouncing back onto the flint.

This leads me to a thought: suppose I mmodify the lock so the hammer rebounds, which would allow the frizzen to close upon the pan(which has glowing embers of steel in the prime) Would this not INJECT flame into the main charge?

Oh, nevermind, I'm going to bed.

Tom

[kutter]

Yes, we do make our liners in both stainless and 12L14.  Both have the same cone, but the 12L14 ones will brown or blue just like the remainder of the barrel.  However, the plain steel ones will certainly wear out or enlarge much quicker then the stainless ones.  For guys who don't like the shiny disc on the side of the barrel and are going to be shooting the rifle very little, the plain steel ones work great.  But, if you are going to do a lot of shooting you better go with the stainless ones.

Thank you for the information Jim..

[dannybb55]

With the Shuttle retired maybe JPL could run some tests in their rocket chamber. They are pretty good with directed flames.