A .58 cal. for your review

[MarkEngraver]

This is a rifle I built for a friend about 6 to 7 yrs. ago.
It was one of those projects were the costumer wants to pick out the parts HE wants to put into a gun and starts picking out things that don't quite go together !
 Much like the rifle in a resent thread here on ALR.
I was at least able to get him to stay within a  "school" of parts for the build.
But He wanted a .58 cal in a 36 x 1 inch barrel, so off to TOW we went. The only offering in a stock for a 1 " was a Hawken or a Leman, so looking at the selection of parts, I thought the Hawken stock would give the best the viability for accommodating the parts.
The other stipulation was He wanted all steel, no brass ! and percussion, not flintlock ! (sigh )

Anyway, here's what I came up with for a Hawken stock, using Beck style parts and a Jacob Hoak patchbox (Kindig #51, his choice! ) Engraving is my own design, the carving is my own adaptation.
The particulars are : 1" x 36" GM barrel, L&R lock, patchbox fabricated by me, Davis triggers, 14 3/4 pull (he's a BIG guy), gun weighs 10 lbs.

Did I pull it off ? or not ?










The "weeping heart"  with "Wild at Heart" is his idea also. It is made of Elk antler and inlayed.
Stock is stained with Minwax. I know, not very PC !
By the way, the gun is a real shooter and really rings the gongs !
The gun came back to me this week for a minor issue, so I thought I'd share it with you all.

Mark

[smart dog]

Hi Mark,
Very nice and well done.  I like your engraving (as always) and the weeping heart is a very nice touch both with respect to shape and material.  I would prefer narrower lock panels and a darker color but that is just my taste.  Again, very nice.

dave

[volatpluvia]

How often was relief carving done on an original Hawken? 
Nice job on the carving.  I can see what you are saying though.
Thanks for sharing the pics, interesting.
volatpluvia

[Don Getz]

I am so thankful that I dont have to build guns for a living, and be choosy about what I build, and it has nothing to do with being period correct.   Sorry Mark, I couldn't do what you just did.................Don

[heinz]

Mark, very nicely executed.  You did not choose the parts and did as well with them as could be expected.

[Lucky R A]

   Your friend has better taste in friends than he does in guns---:>}

[blunderbuss]

As one may notice in original rifles ,with in a certain school, that from time to time there is the one signed by a known maker that doesn't match the others in style. Undoubtedly it was a customer wanting to do his own thing. I don't see anything wrong with that. You've made a beautiful rifle no apologies are needed to anyone. We're all individuals with different taste.

[Swampwalker]

Mark, I think you did a very good job incorporating the elements into a rifle, and I think the architecture and carving 'work'.  However, perhaps it's the photography, but it doesn't look like you got adequate stain penetration, the color looks kind of washed out.  Perhaps some pigmented finish could be added to deepen and mellow the color a bit.  Overall, though, a really good job.

[hoochiepapa]

It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks of it, as long as your customer is happy. Good job, I really like the carving and engraving.

[FRJ]

I think its a really nice job. I especially like the iron patchbox and not so much the weaping heart. I know there are a lot of guys on this site that are very interested in making their weapons exactly as a particular school dictates. I'm just a hunter and if it works for that I'm a happy man. Frank

[Stophel]

Excellent, given what you had to work with!

The engraving is super good.   

[rich pierce]

Within your customer constraints you executed it really well.  Back around 1982 I had a few "spec" builds under my belt, had sold them at Dixon's and Charlie Stone's shops, and thought I wanted to build custom rifles as a living (dreams mostly).  I got a customer who woke me up and went and got a PhD instead.    One of the things that stuck with me is that everything you build or do that has permanance (whether rifles or a published scientific study) remains out there for people to see and judge.  I used to joke that the next gun customer who cured me was going to order would be a cherry stocked, brass mounted, relief carved flint Hawken halfstock with a swamped barrel and wire inlay.  No matter how well executed, it might give folks the impression that building such guns was my idea.  I think several of your skills really stand out on this build, but would shine that much brighter on a rifle that doesn't blend styles and periods.

[Glenn]

I like the way the project turned out.  It appears you did a great job blending everything together.  The metal browning looks very well done and doesn't hide the engraving like some of us might think it would.  I personally see nothing wrong with the stain if that is what the buyer wanted.

[MarkEngraver]

Thanks guys for the feed back, I appreciate it.

The Hawken stock was only chosen because it would accommodate the 1" barrel. If there had been a Lancaster style stock available with a 1" channel I would have used that, but 15/16" was the largest barrel size offered.
The idea behind the gun was to produce a Lancaster/Lebanon style rifle with the .58 cal x 1" barrel, and since
the Hawken fits into what I would call a "basic" Lancaster profile and the Hawken stock was oversize, it gave me room to fudge around a bit.

It is a project that gives me a good sense satisfaction because it stretched me and my abilities to make something with divergent parts into something that was a cohesive whole and didn't looked cobbled together too much like a "Frankenstein's Monster".
 (Don, you would not believe some of the engraving projects I get where I have to take different styles and meld them together into something that makes sense ! )

Regarding the stain, No, I didn't get the penetration I wanted. And now the the owner/friend of this gun wants to redo the stain with  Aqua Fortis like my .45 I posted a while back.
Any advise on stripping an oil based stain and a linseed/True oil finish out of the stock ??

Mark

[blunderbuss]

You know the Hawken family made Jaegers in Germany it's possiable Hawken just started making Jaegers again with his own additions and subtractions Large bore shorter barrel and narrower stock It's all related

[Glenn]

You know the Hawken family made Jaegers in Germany it's possiable Hawken just started making Jaegers again with his own additions and subtractions Large bore shorter barrel and narrower stock It's all related

I have to agree with this.

[bgf]

My honest opinion is that if you hadn't said so, no one would know it was a Hawken stock, and if you had used brass mounts, the number of people who could find the discrepancies would have been reduced even further.  There's a couple of things I would do differently as well, but it is a pretty rifle that makes your friend happy, so you don't owe anyone an apology for not forcing something from RCA #1 down your friend's throat.  On the contrary I think more of you as a gun builder and a person, that you not only were willing to do what your friend asked but also were able to make it look very presentable, even quite attractive, despite a bit of the fantastical in the conception of the build.

[Dphariss]

To be honest?
Looks like it should work fine with good recoil characteristics. This is a major concern with a 58. Far better than the typical "Hawken buttplates" would on a similar stock. Should not bite the cheekbone either. So over all I would give it a thumbs up for looks (aside from color) and usage.
I would have used AF for stain and a patent breech, but thats just me.

Many late Hawkens are much different than a lancaster. The early guns, likely Jake guns, often had a little curve to the comb line.
Dan

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Having been a graphic designer for many many years. Being creative is so much more fun when it's your choice not someone elses. But you get hardened to the fact that the "customer is always right" and if you want to get paid you do it his way, even is the customer is not right. You did good with what you were offered. But I feel your pain. I think if it were me I wouldn't sign the barrel unless it was my choice on the parts and design.

[wattlebuster]

Regardless of school  or whatever you gave the man what he wanted an you did a FINE job on it so I give you a AAA+++

[pathfinder]

Lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol are probably the only thing I would try to strip the stock with. You may not be able to get enough oil out of the stock for A/F to work properly. I've done a few and used Dangler's stain after with fantastic result's.

[Herb]

Here is a Hawken built by a very skilled local builder (not me!) about six years before.  He told me he stained it with "some kind of acid" and finished it with his traditional linseed oil, which he does very well.  The rifle was never used nor exposed to sunlight and had gone as white as pine.  Randy, the owner, asked me to refinish and stain it.  I experimented with Fiebing's dark brown leather dye in the barrel channel for color and discovered it went right through the finish and stained the wood.  So I did nothing to the original finish, just applied a wet coat of this oil leather stain over it and this is the result.  If you finished the barrel channel or some inletting, you might try this.

[MarkEngraver]

Thanks for the reply on the stain issue.
 Frankly,I really don't want to mess with it and just say, "lesson learned" and move onto the next project !

I have used Fiebings leather stains on one rifle,  my little .40 smooth "rifle", and they bleached back light after awhile in the sun.
I think I would try stripping that  gun back and see what happens, before I would try it on his.

Mark