M1842 Austrian cavalry carbine Big bore!

[McLeanWelsh]

Good morning everyone, I have come into possesion of an old gun and im trying to source some
More info on it. 

I was told it was an M1842 austrian cavalry carbine. The gun fires and works fine, it .75 caliber rifled percussion and fired a few caps with a little powder no ball after a thorough cleaning. 

Some parts which as far as I have been able to research arent the correct ones from the gun. 

Such as the brass endcap as much as it looks original on the gun is not, it does look like something off of a number of french military arms.  However the inletting where the brass goes on is very old and perhaps may have been done by a solider in the field or a civilian. 

Also the ramrod is not original, as i understand it these did not have ramrod channels and they were issued to soliders which carried them on the saddle. 

Looking for anymore info and an approximate value on this gun. 

More pictures can be had if you would like aswell.

Cheers, McLean .L. Welsh

[longrifle]

Have you taken the barrel out of the stock and looked for any markings on the breech or the underside of the barrel. I have seen several that had Confederate Arsenal markings on the breech or the underside of the barrel where they went through Confederate rework.

[McLeanWelsh]

well being that the only camera I have is on my Iphone these pictures are not that great. I took the lock off and the barrel and got some more pics here.

this is the right side of the barrel, looks to be a 17 or mabye a 19


Here is the inside of the lock, looks like the lock parts are numbered 46 and the hammer possibly 54 with two strange dents below it, also there looks to be three screw holes that are not used and have been filled in. There is also the 6 slices cut into the lock which match the same pattern on the underside of the barrel. There is also an N right above the back of the mainspring on the lock plate. Where the groove for the nipple drum is on the lock plate there looks to be on the left side part of the number 3. although with the groove cut only have the 3 can be seen.


On the outside of the lock at the back there looks to be part of a mark although its impossible to tell what it is.


on the underside of the barrel the breech and barrel are marked 27 with the lineup mark. Also the previously mentioned 6 slices.


hope this gives us some insight, cheers!

[McLeanWelsh]

also I forgot to add the bolt that holds the breech down is stamped 27 as well. I havent seen many bolts stamped on the top kinda interesting.

[longrifle]

Interesting a lot of times, but not always those slash mark's mean it could have been through Confederate Arsenal rework. Are there any of those slash marks anywhere on any of the screws on the edge of the head of the screws or the screw shafts themselves  or any other places on the gun like inside the lock mortise or in the barrel channel?

[Glenn]

Very interesting piece.  A nice little carbine.  Thanks for posting the photos.

[McLeanWelsh]

So far I have found a couple of mostly all original ones that went for around 1400

this gun is obviously not all original.

this website has one that sold and the stamping style of numbers matches mine along with the design on the outside of the lock although mine is way more beat up.

http://www.championhillrelics.com/newfirearms.htm

[longrifle]

The bolster conversion that your gun has on it look's a whole lot like a Confederate conversion.

[McLeanWelsh]

Thats good news indeed, any idea what this gun is worth ?

[longrifle]

I can't say for sure about the value, I have seen them go from $700.00-$1500.00 a lot depends on the markings some of them nearly every piece is marked including the screw's.

[McLeanWelsh]

Thanks thats atleast something to work off of.

Considering I only paid 250 for it I think im doing okay.

Mclean

[TPH]

What is the barrel length?

[TPH]

And one other question, are you sure it is a .75 caliber? Might it be .69 caliber?

[McLeanWelsh]

Well the original caliber of these guns is .71 however over the years wear has made it closer to .75

The barrel is 14.5 inches

Mclean

[doug]

Mclean;
     Good to see that you made it onto here

     the slash marks are assembly marks; they are fairly common and means that many of the parts were hardened in bulk.  The assembly marks allow a person to sort all the pieces into groups.   I think the highest they go is about ten or X

      The nosecap looks like it is off a charleville musket.    Al Larsen has one of the guns for sale for quite a bit more than I want to pay for a gun in its condition (poor) and you may have seen it at the Duncan gun show.

     What does puzzle me is the drum and I am wondering if the original bolster was brazed on and subsequently blew off and was then replaced in recent times with a drum

cheers Doug

[McLeanWelsh]

Thanks Doug, Im really liking it here!

Yeah a charleville was my first guess, it has the correct holes and will not come off the barrel past the sight. So its been on the gun for quite a while. You can still see the outline on the side of the breech where the original tube lock was. The drum seems to be a fairly new and looks to be turned on a lathe.

Mclean

[TPH]

It is very interesting, thanks for showing us. While a Confederate provenance is possible it is not at all likely. The brass frond band is what gets me, the use of a French band on this gun could indicate a foreign military rework, possibly even Confederate, but French muskets were even rarer in Southern Service than this Austro-Hungarian M1851 Kavalleriekarabiner so the odds are against it. The original iron band could also have been replaced with the brass band after military service.

The "slash marks" chiseled on the barrel are simple markings  to allow for keeping all parts together during manufacture and repair, the same marks should be on all parts of the gun to include the lock, stock and furniture. These are a common markings on all military arms made everywhere before the era of interchangeability and this gun was certainly made before A-H arsenals installed the equipment to manufacture interchangeable guns. Yes, Southern armorers may have done this on repair work of non-interchangeable guns or when adding non matching parts to a gun but there is no reason to think that they were the only source of this marking.