Question on H House barrel

[gibster]

I have the pleasure of owning an older H House rifle that according to Hershel, was built in 1969.  I showed it to him awhile back and he gave me some information on the rifle (in writing).  It is a "poorboy" style rifle with a Walnut stock.  The rifle "fits" me unlike any rifle that I have ever owned.  According to Hershel, the 13/16's-inch barrel was a blank that he rifled himself and mikes out to about a .43 caliber.  The problem is that over the years, someone neglected to clean the barrel as it should be and you guessed it, it is a little rough.  You really can't feel it when loading, but if you drop a light down the barrel, you can see it  My question is, would it hurt the value of the rifle to have it reamed out and re-rifled? Or am I better off leaving it as is and enjoying it for what it is?  I don't know if it could be freshend up to restore the accuracy or not.  I'm not real familiar with how to do something like that or what all is involved.  I would like to be able to shoot it, but want it to be accurate also.  I have shot it several times and although I am not the best shot with a flintlock (or anything else for that matter ), I have other flinters that seem to be more accurately that this one.  Thoughts or opinions will be welcomed.

[Bill of the 45th]

Gibby,  I only shot it about four or five times before I sold/traded it to you.  It was rough like that I got it.  It definitely shot better than I could, and I took one squirrel with it.  I'd leave it as is, just keep it cleaned and oiled.  You wouldn't want to trade it back for what we dickered for plus say ten bucks profit. .  I'm still kicking myself daily for letting you talk me out of it.  I know of five or six ALR members including Dennis that handled her that day, that were reluctant to hand it back.  I think that's the one gun I regret the most letting go of.  If you really want it freshened, I'd send it to Ed Rayl, and have him do minimum.

Bill

[gibster]

Thanks Bill.  Not ready to sell or trade this one.  If I ever decide to sell/trade, you will get first chance at it.  I didn't figure that the condition of the bore was from when you owned it.  From looking at it,  I think that it has been that way for quite a few years.  I don't want to do anything to the rifle that would take away from the originality of the piece.  The fact that Hershel rifled the barrel himself adds to the piece, at least for me.  I can't help but think that if I have it re-rifled, it will take away from it.  It's a nice rifle and I want to keep it as original as possible.  I received a message from another member that recommended that I unbreech the barrel and use a scotch brite pads and lapping compound to freshen the bore.  Has anyone else ever tried this?  Sounds to me like it would work and unless someone has different info, I will give it a try.  I would think that it would slick the bore up, but would take material from the lands more than the grooves of the rifling.  Thoughts?

[bgf]

Scotch brite with a little polishing compound probably won't hurt it, but I wonder if the roughness is really a problem, since you say it doesn't catch when loading.  My experience with a rough bore (and that wasn't even obvious with a light) was that by the 3rd shot (or some small number) you had to hammer it down, wiping or not.  Maybe just try a different patch and/or ball to improve accuracy -- hand rifling may be shallower or deeper than "factory" barrels.  What did Bill use in it or did HH have any recommendations? 

[Don Getz]

I am one who likes to use scotch brite, but from what you are saying about the barrel, I don't think it would do a lot for it
other than to shine it up a bit.   I would send it to Bob Hoyt and let him recut the grooves and run the rifling cutter over
the tops of the lands to smooth them out.  He's good at that and you could end up with a good shooter...........Don

[A.Merrill]

    Do a search for Rusty Bore by A.Merrill, it worked for me.    Good Luck    AL

[ottawa]

freshening is not rerifleing. its just cleaning up and smoothing out the existing rifling it may change the caliber a bit say from a .43 to a .44 or .45 depending on the condition. but try like was said shooting it to find the right combonation it like you mite be surprised and besides give you an excuse to do more shooting.

[Don Getz]

Ottowa.....you're not quite right in your description of ""freshing" a barrel.   To fresh a barrel, you must first pour a lead
lap in the bore, attaching or pouring it around a ramrod.   They would then remove a section of the lap that goes into the
groove of the barrel and insert a steel cutter which is then used to deepen the grooves.   They could also make a cutter
that would run over the lands to clean them up.   Because most of the old barrels are made of soft steel, they would
show a lot of wear if shot a lot.  Every time the barrel was freshed, it became a larger calibre.   When I was a kid, they
held an estate sale a few houses from where I lived.   The old gentleman that died had an over/under percussion gun
which was sold, possibly an Amos Benfer, who was a builder into the late l800's, early 1900's.  They also sold about a
dozen freshing sticks, with the lead lap still on them.   Of course the auctioneer had no idea of what they were used for.
Don

[Bill of the 45th]

Here's are fearless leader examining the gun in Question, on a beautiful March day on the porch of the Museum at Norris.


Bill

[ottawa]

quite right Don. I made my description to short and vague thanks for stepping in

[Daryl]

Don's suggestion of seeing Bobby Hoyte is an excellent one.

We've 'saved' a finely pitted barrel by lapping with a couple lead lapps. It's a long road to an almost successful result.  Having it re-worked by Boddy is the best solution.

[TMerkley]

Another method that I used to clean up an old barrel that I bought at Friendship was to make a "patch" of 1,000 grit emery cloth and run that through breech to muzzle several times.  Then, about 1/2 inch from the end of the ramrod, wrap the end of the ramrod with teflon tape so that it is a tight fit in the bore. Then, with a slit cut in the ramrod, attach a very thin piece of 1,000 grit emery cloth, (approx. the width the of the groove and about 2 inches long).  Then, run the ram rod down the bore, breech to muzzle on each groove until you get the desired feel.  If it is deeply pitted, it will still be felt , but not as rough as the start.  The pits will always be felt until totally removed.  The barrel, I did this on was an orginal from around civil war or before.  .54 cal swamped.  7 groove.  very rough at first.  I had to run a stainless steel brush down it several times first.  It now shoots very well with a .535 ball.  a little tight but should smooth out over time.  "Poor boys got Poor Ways".

[Daryl]

sorry- just re-read my post and meant to say Don's suggestion of bobby Hoyte was a good one, instead typed Don't suggestion - I edited it.

[Daryl]

Once read an article of using Crocus Cloth on a tight jag to smooth handguns barrels. I've not tried it on a rifle, but did my service .38 using that method.  Canadian Tire lists the package of Crocus cloth as 800 grit, but they lie. It feels at least twice as smooth as their own 1500grit paper, and cuts even less. So- I used it.

After oiling the cloth, I did both my revolver and my partner's - 50 strokes up and down - total 100 strokes. After that, neither's accuracy was disturbed in any way as I still shot possibles every time, with even smaller blow-outs than before, but the remarkable thing was they didn't lead at all - none - zilch - even after 2,500 rounds which was a weeks 'training' no leading with the comercial cast & loaded ammo, which was remarkable, for our revolvers.

What's this got to do with a ml rifle - it's got to work, that's what.  With a large enough piece on the appropriate jag, it should finely removed much of the problem - I'd suggest it's a bit more agressive than scotch brite - maybe.

[flintriflesmith]

Freshening a barrel is not complicated --- just time consuming and sort of messy cause the oil lubing the cut and the chips get all over.

Take a look at this:
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/ToolsandTechniques/freshening.htm

The kind of shallow rust pitting you are describing will require less than a caliber change in bore size to completely remove.

Gary

[Dphariss]

If its only been shot with BP lapping may fix it. If someone has played around with the more corrosive replica powder it might need something more drastic since this stuff may create "crawdad holes" in steel.
Dan

[LynnC]

I have freshed a barrel per flintriflesmith's method with excellent results.  Freshing has been discussed frequently.  With careful work and patients it can be restored..........Lynn

[gibster]

Thanks for all the info and tips.  I am leaning towards freshening the barrel with the method that flintriflesmith describes in his post.  What is the best way to make the cutters for this method?  Do I need to use tool steel or can I use an old file that is cut down?  Thanks again.

[flintriflesmith]

An old file would be tool steel.

Being lazy I usually start with a new piece of steel so I don't have to soften it and spend time removing the file teeth and getting the sides parallel. I shape the cutter by filing and then harden it. What type of fairly high carbon steel doesn't matter all that much --- I guess I've used everything from spring stock to O-1.

Gary

[LynnC]

I made single tooth cutters from an old file (anealed) as flintriflesmith describes.  I used a dremmel with cut off wheel to do the cutting and shaping.  Hardened and tempered.  You can do it!..................Lynn

Thanks to Gary for posting the technique on his web site!