Different Styles Of Touchhole Liners

[Frizzen]

Back several years ago Michales I think that's who it was, made a liner that you put in with
a allen wrench. I have a couple of these, and still have one in my 45 Hawken. It shot OK
for me. Even shot a 50 at 100 yds bench with it in a match once. My group in the "10" ring
was about 2 inches or a little less. Question, What do you think of these liners? Pro & Cons.
I thought I read once that the liner wall was on the thin side and some even blew out. This has
been a long time ago. Well what do you all think?

[Acer Saccharum]

I don't like something that screws in and out for cleaning. Eventually the threads wear, and the vent becomes a projectile.

Same hard feelings about percussion drums.

Tom

[Frizzen]

I never take it out once it is screwed in. Only take it out when the hole gets too big.

[54Bucks]

 Back when we used Thompson Center flintlocks just about all of us replaced the original with the replacement from Michaels. Being coned on the inside was an improvement. My habit was not to remove mine regularly either, and none of our gang ever had one blow out. That probably happened to someone who either didn't install it correctly or wore the threads from removing and replacing it.
 Since moving to traditional longrifles I prefer the white lightning liner. The inside cone allows the powder charge up against the flush exterior right against the pan/flash. Where-as the Michaels has the depth of the hex wrench opening which keeps the powder charge a little further from the pan. It just doesn't look good on an ALR.

[Daryl]

My longrifle originally had the allen wrench vent. Ignition was horrid slow - most of the time. I replaced it with a white lightening and ignition is great, virtually every time.

[duca]

Yep. Have to agree. I just don't like them. For all the above reasons, and they just dont look good. I built a rifle a few years ago and just drilled the Barrel. Now if I ever live to see it burn through i'll use a liner like the "White Lightning"

[Naphtali]

When a liner without provision for easy removal needs to be removed or replaced, what does one do and how does one do it?

[Daryl]

Just drill it out a bit and drive in a square easy-out and turn it out.

[Acer Saccharum]

When a liner without provision for easy removal needs to be removed or replaced, what does one do and how does one do it?

Drill a hole in the liner big enough to use a decent sized easy out. I install my liners with loc-tite to seal the threads, so if you do use a thread locker, a little heat helps to free up the liner.

[WadePatton]

LHDB

left-hand drill bits nearly eliminate the need for using anything else to remove headless screws.  the drilling provides heat enough for thermal expansion and the bit usually grabs and backs the screw out before you expect it.

put that in yer toolkit.

[Dphariss]

When a liner without provision for easy removal needs to be removed or replaced, what does one do and how does one do it?

http://homerepair.about.com/od/interiorhomerepair/ss/screw_extractor.htm
Then install a new liner.
The flat faced vent like the WL or that used by the British works best. Anything with a deep cone or recess on the outside tends to be more problematical in my experience.

Dan

[Dphariss]

LHDB

left-hand drill bits nearly eliminate the need for using anything else to remove headless screws.  the drilling provides heat enough for thermal expansion and the bit usually grabs and backs the screw out before you expect it.

put that in yer toolkit.

While this is true for broken bolts in many cases I would not recommend that you use it on most vent liners.  There is very little metal to drill in a vent liner and barrels are expensive too.
Besides I can buy a broken screw extractor at a hardware store/auto parts store.

Dan

[Long Ears]

I have tried the Left hand drill bits and they sometimes work. The statement about the heat expanding doesn't fit in my way of thinking. You are expanding the wrong part. The heat might work to loosen the thread locker but wouldn't you drill through before it got hot enough? Easyout and heat has worked everytime so far for me. Bob

[WadePatton]

While this is true for broken bolts in many cases I would not recommend that you use it on most vent liners.  There is very little metal to drill in a vent liner and barrels are expensive too.
Besides I can buy a broken screw extractor at a hardware store/auto parts store.

Dan

Dan I do not understand your misgivings, but respect your right to them.  In my experience a LHDB simplifies extrication-of any RH-threaded object.  They come in all sizes and I did buy my first ones at a family-owned auto parts store. 

The beautiful thing about drilling out a liner is that the liner already has a hole down the middle.  too easy.

[WadePatton]

I have tried the Left hand drill bits and they sometimes work. The statement about the heat expanding doesn't fit in my way of thinking. You are expanding the wrong part. The heat might work to loosen the thread locker but wouldn't you drill through before it got hot enough? Easyout and heat has worked everytime so far for me. Bob

it's the differential of expansion that causes threads to loosen their grip upon each other.  IOW if one is using heat to break something loose, the parts can be allowed to cool before attempting to remove them*.  this assumes a flame or friction, in the case of drilling, is utilized to generate the heat.  Whereas if one brought everything slowly up to heat in a oven, the only differential would be of materials/alloy and i'd bet against that as a viable means of "breaking" threads loose.

*but quite right WRT threadless fits where one part is heated and/or the other cooled in order to fit them together or take them apart.  like a ring gear or wrist pin, etc.

in every case i can remember using the LHDB, the part suddenly releases and backs out before you expect it to.   I have NOT attempted this on a liner yet, but will when the time comes.  I see absolutely no downside as it works so nicely in every other application yet.

feel free to slap me around of the misuse of engineering terminology/concepts, i learned that from "the street" as opposed to the years i threw away at college in liberal arts curriculum. 

[Dphariss]

While this is true for broken bolts in many cases I would not recommend that you use it on most vent liners.  There is very little metal to drill in a vent liner and barrels are expensive too.
Besides I can buy a broken screw extractor at a hardware store/auto parts store.

Dan

Dan I do not understand <snip>

Right.
Dan

[alsask]

Regarding touch hole liners...how long does it take to actualy enlarge one enough to bother replacing?  I bought several spares for my Lymans when I first got into shooting flinters a few years ago.  I re-worked one by "coning" it using a few different size numbered bits to bring the charge up close to the hole so you could see the grains nesting near the opening.

After a couple of hundred shots I can see no enlargment of the hole comparing it to new spares I have in stock.

Mind you I shoot rather light loads, 85 grains of 2F in a .54.

[Hungry Horse]

  When I worked in an industrial supply store, I found that the day I started carrying Aero Kroil, and left handed drill bits, was the same day I had to start dusting the easy-outs.
  I've tried all the touch hole liners on the market, and I now only use Chamber's white lightning liners. They are the fastest IMHO.

                     Hungry Horse

[WadePatton]

   ...the day I started carrying Aero Kroil, and left handed drill bits, was the same day I had to start dusting the easy-outs...
 
                     Hungry Horse

Kano Labs, Nashville TN.  good stuff them Kroil.

[Dennis Glazener]

Whetrock asked me to post this photo for him.
Dennis

[whetrock]

(Thanks, Dennis, for helping me get this posted.)

I wanted to post this sketch as a followup to a post on the "straight touch hole" string. This is a sketch of the touch hole coning tool described in the Journal of Historical Arms Making Technology. The article is a translation of an old german booklet describing gunsmithing tools using in the 18th c. In a somewhat ambiguous manner, the article describes the tool as being used by clamping the tang of the tool in the vise. I discussed this tool with Richard Sullivan (during a visit to Colonial Williamsburg in 2009). If I remember correctly, his comments agreed with the article--that the tang of the tool was clamped in the vise, then the breach of the barrel was slipped up over the tool, such that the conical cutter fitted into the bore-side of a straight-drilled touch hole. The smith then pressed the barrel against the cutter as the knob was cranked. This yielded a touch hole drilled straight on the outside, but coned on the inside. I hope my sketch makes it clear how the cutter works. By having four gears, a clock-wise turn of the handle serves to turn the cone-shaped cutter clock-wise.

[WadePatton]

very nice.  i got that sketch immediately whereas i couldn't quite fetch what was up with the other one. 


thanks for posting.