Author Topic: Violin finish  (Read 1155 times)

Offline ed lundquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Violin finish
« on: July 24, 2022, 02:16:35 AM »
Does the finish require aquafortis before the varnish? Thanks.

Offline P.Bigham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2022, 02:19:49 AM »
One is a stain. The other is a sealer possibly with a tint. No you wouldn't have to use it.
" not all who wander are lost"

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3634
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2022, 02:29:00 AM »
This is a subject that could easily fill many pages.  The bottom line is that *IF* you are discussing what was used on some lehigh area rifles, primarily 19th century, you will need a sealer to prevent the wood from taking up finish coats and imho this was likely shellac or seedlac.  I am only talking about a sealer, to fill the wood pores and render it largely impermeable to the overlying colored 'violin finish' that will be the actual finish itself.  Most of these (again imho) do not look to have been stained - that was the point of a quicky sealing coat and a colored finish:  To avoid hitting the stock with anything water based and to come up with a very colorful, attractive finish that is fast drying and can be applied quickly.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline ed lundquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2022, 02:43:34 AM »
Thanks Paul and Eric. I have read Eric Von A on the subject and with that information I was thinking of a thinned wash of aqua fortis followed by a sealer followed by thinned coats of varnish (copal?) into which oil pigments are mulled. A lead drier will toughen the varnish film and if I don't chew on it I should be safe. Anything stand out as problematic? Thanks again.

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3634
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2022, 03:01:26 AM »
Theres nothing wrong with what you propose but I'm pretty certain that on these lehighs anyway, aquafortis was not being used in any way.  Water based stains are a pain in the butt and I believe the entire point of developing a useful colored varnish was to avoid hitting the stock with water.  A good dark seedlac or button lac will give you a golden undertone anyway.  There are also assorted other dark resins that are solvent in turp that will create a light golden undertone and can act as sealers, so there is really no reason to use anyting water based.

An interesting note is that I have seen these finishes used on extremely curly maple stocks, yet it is clear that the goal was oriented around the color of the top coat and there was no attempt to highlight the curl as would be typical with AF.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline ed lundquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2022, 04:50:49 AM »
Eric the piece I am working on has only a little curl. I don't want a pink stock and perhaps that is a matter of layers. I will do samples and hopefully arrive at a reasonably similar result. Looking forward to the experiments and any additional assistance. Thank you.

Offline Goo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2022, 02:43:45 PM »
I am guessing that "violin finish" means you want that similar color which is common in varying shades among violins.  If you should contact a violin repair shop they may be willing to show you what they use to match color on repairs.
Opinions are expensive. Rich people rarely if ever voice their opinion.

Offline RichG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2022, 09:58:54 PM »
https://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/
tutorial on violin finish

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2022, 05:43:14 PM »
I know little about finish on a violin but have been told the difference between a violin and a fiddle was that beer is more likely to be spilled on a fiddle. I THINK that came from Paul Mullins or maybe Eddie Adcock or John Duffey.
Bob Roller

Offline Mike Lyons

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
  • Afghanvet
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2022, 08:51:39 PM »
I know little about finish on a violin but have been told the difference between a violin and a fiddle was that beer is more likely to be spilled on a fiddle. I THINK that came from Paul Mullins or maybe Eddie Adcock or John Duffey.
Bob Roller

Bob,  The difference is in the “strangs.”

Offline rmnc3r

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2022, 02:32:53 AM »
I build Violins as well as Longrifles - in fact, please see my post "Curly Maple off-cuts wanted" in the For Sale/Wanted forum.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=72579.0

I recently asked Jim Chambers about tinting his Traditional Stock Finish for use on my fiddles - he replied that Laurel Mountain Forge Stain works well for tinting.
https://www.flintlocks.com/parts.htm

I haven't used it yet, but it holds promise.

Violins are typically sealed (called "Ground" in Violin-ese) before tinted varnish is applied.
Some Grounds (sealers) may impart a tint to the wood.
The topic of "Ground" is frequently a hot topic amongst Luthiers. 
Heretofore, I just used thinned Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil for my ground, but am now casting about for other options.

Here's a direct link to von Aschwege's tutorial on Violin Finish
https://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/red-violin-varnish.html


« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 02:49:14 AM by rmnc3r »

Offline rmnc3r

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2022, 02:38:07 AM »
I know little about finish on a violin but have been told the difference between a violin and a fiddle was that beer is more likely to be spilled on a fiddle. I THINK that came from Paul Mullins or maybe Eddie Adcock or John Duffey.
Bob Roller

Bob,  The difference is in the “strangs.”

I heard the difference was that Violins are carried in a case, while Fiddles are carried in a sack.

Offline BrianS

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2022, 02:54:21 AM »
I heard that violins have the rosin cleaned off of them regularly and fiddles do not.

Offline rmnc3r

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2022, 10:52:59 AM »
I'm down to my last bottle of BC Tru-Oil - any tried and true ways to tint it?

Offline foxm2015

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2022, 12:02:46 PM »
Jack Brooks, jsbrookslongrifles.com, has information regarding this finish technique.

Offline ed lundquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Re: Violin finish
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2022, 02:16:30 PM »
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.