1st build in progress, thoughts?

[Stone River]

Hi everyone, hope this works.  I’m techchallenged.  I’m working on my 1st build with a components set.  I know, but needed training wheels.  Any how this is where I’m at so far.  Please look at the pictures and let me know if you see a problem thus far.  I have one which is a gap on the side/bottom of the barrel towards the lock.  It’s not much and when clamped it is basically gone.  Also please look at my contact of the breech to the barrel.  Am I good?  I’m installing a White Lighting liner.  Does the “circle” look in about the correct place?  I have studied most of the books and the DVD’s so I think I’m good, but wanted to check with you all before I have gone too far.

The gap.



Breech fit.


If this looks ok, than I have to inlet the tang.  What length should it be?  Alexander say somewhere between 1 ½ to 2 ½ inches.  That’s a lot of space.  The gun is a Chamber’s Little Feller  if that helps.

Thanks for your time!

Stone river.

[Dave B]

Hey your looking good Stone River. The trick is to see where the liner is in relationship to the pan of the lock. I like the center of the flash hole to be exactly at the level of the top of the pan and centered in the middle of its dish. where is this point in relation to the circle you have drawn on the barrel? If it s off by a bit I would not use your circle but centre drill the dot of where the center of the pan is. Just my thoughts. I dont care where the liner ends up on the barrel as long as the lock has the vent in the correct position.

[duca]

Looks good so far. Ever think about drilling the touch hole into the Barrel? This way if you ever need to you could always put a touch hole liner in when needed. Good luck with your build...

[blunderbuss]

use a center punch to punch where you want the hole then inlay the lock using that punch mark as a target point, generally you'll get pretty close .Then if your not exactly on you can move the punch mark and drill the touch hole. That's known as a controlled screw up, and I'm a past master at that !

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Inletting the lock into a precarved stock does not leave you very much latitude in its placement.  So, inlet the lock, then lay the barrel into its channel and see where the vent will be.  You can now move the barrel back, if necessary, to get the vent in the correct or preferred relationship to the breech plug.  It may be perfect as is, but as well, may not.  The rest looks good.  Don't worry about missing wood under the breech of the barrel...it's insignificant in your case.

[volatpluvia]

guys, if I'm wrong please correct me.  I looks like he has very solid contact on the lock side of the barrel.  that is a weak spot in the wood because of the lock inlet.  I have always shaved down across there and relieved the contact so as not to hammer that part of the wood with recoil.  I only shaved down about 3/4 of the way, because at the bottom it is stronger.  I have never had one break either.  what do you all think?
volatpluvia

[Stone River]

great, thanks for the yelp all!  I'm not quite sure what to do from here.  I left a small bit of wiggle room at the breech/vent postion to allow for any mistakes I make in inleting the tang.  That is proving to be a chore.  I have the front/breech area down fairly well, but the tail of the tang is sticking up in the air and showing little contact.  I can't figure it out.

Stone river

[geb324]

You Need to bend it to match the contour
of the wrist on the stock

[Bill-52]

Stone,

Once you bend the tang to match the wrist contour you can also file the tang, particularly the finial end, to fit the stock.  I've been told that many originals have tangs that are filed to a taper (I haven't seen enough original tangs myself to confirm).  This also saves taking more wood out of the wrist/lock area, a weak area in the stock.

Best of luck....
Bill

[Jerry V Lape]

You need to bend the tang enough to get about half or a little more  of the thickness of the tail end into the wood.  The rest you can file down to match the wood contour when you are bringing the final shape to the stock in that area.

[Stone River]

Hey all,
     Still giving me trouble.  If you don’t mind take a look at these picts and see what you think.  Maybe I just have to bend the tang down more.  I was trying not to have a big hump or a really curved tang.  I was shooting for more of a straight line.  Probably not correct or possible.  I know I can file down the hump, just was shooting for less of a curve over all if possible.  I’m probably being overly cautious.  I do prefer to ask before I go too far and can not recover.  As everyone mentions, hard to put wood back on the stock.












Thanks again to everyone for the help. 

Stone River

[Dennis Glazener]

I think you need a little more bend as close to the tang bolster as you can get it. I usually put a 1/4 piece of steel in my vise, tighten real tight then put that up under the tang, as close to the bolster (I support the other end of the barrel on a roller stand) as I can get it then take a big, heavy hammer and frail it pretty hard as close to 1/4" piece of steel as I can (so as to bend the tang down). Not way back on the tang. You shouldn't have to bend it much, by the time the barrel seats against the bottom of the barrel channel it should come close to being right.

Heating the tang would help but I always do mind cold.
Dennis

[sleddman]

Be carefull with the tang. You have already started the inlet in the back end. If you curve it more you run a chance to having a gap on the back. Don't worry about the hump in it because when you are done inletting the tang you just file the top to the wood height. It will all look even at this point.  not to worry. As far as drilling the touch hole liner. This is one of the last things I would do when the gun is all put together.  You center punch a spot center to and just above the flash pan.  I like my touch hole to be right about even with the breach bolt end. looks like your drawling is more to the front of the bolt.    Having it even allows you to also clean the gun better.  When it is drilled you will have to take out the breach bolt and grind a cone in it so the powder will also flow into the touch hole liner.  If you have any questions just PM me.

[Roger Fisher]

Hey your looking good Stone River. The trick is to see where the liner is in relationship to the pan of the lock. I like the center of the flash hole to be exactly at the level of the top of the pan and centered in the middle of its dish. where is this point in relation to the circle you have drawn on the barrel? If it s off by a bit I would not use your circle but centre drill the dot of where the center of the pan is. Just my thoughts. I dont care where the liner ends up on the barrel as long as the lock has the vent in the correct position.

Yes, measure twice then punch the center!

[Stone River]

Thanks a bunch.  I moved the barrel back a bit more and should have the vent centered in the pan.  I should be just a hair in front of the breech plug or maybe just graze it.  Now I'm fumbling and trying to inlet the tang now that it's back in the barrel.  Filed my drafts and bent it with the trick using the 5/16" rod that I learned on here.  Great tip!  Unfortunately The rear of the tang is still sticking straight up in the air!
I didn't want to bend it too much and have a huge hump to file down and I'm not real crazy about a dramatic bend in the tang.  I would prefer it to be fairly straight if that is possible.

I set the tang along the curve of the stock/wrist and marked the edge of the tang where I thought it needed to be bent and proceeded.  My marks were mostly toward the middle of the tang, or withing a 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch or so.  Do you all start the bend as close to the bolster as possible?  I think Dennis might have solved my problem.  You all think that's where I went wrong?

One other issue if I may.  How do you keep the tang from "creeping" the barrel forward?  I'm trying to inlet it straight down and the next thing I know the barrel as moved forward a 1/16" of an inch or so. My Grenville book and my Recreating the American Longrifle is dogearred and tattered, and my DVD's I'm surprised still play.  I think I have read most every post even closely related and I'm still just a little fustrated.
I'm truly thankful for your help.

[docone]

One of the things I have done, is taper the metal. This allows a real tight fit. Yes, you can file down the tang.
I like my drum threads to go into the breech plug. I drill into the face of the breech plug. One of the reasons I use a register mark on the breech/barrel intersection, is to be able to reregister the two if I need to remove the drum.
If you taper the tang, it makes it just a tad easier to inlet.
With the taper, you can pencil the part that needs to be inlet then cut away. The pencil mark will be on the narrow part so any oopsies can be compensated for.
The other thing I do, is completely strip my locks to inlet. I also taper those. A quick file making a small entry angle and the lock plate fits well.
If you oopsie with a screw hole, drill it out, then use epoxy and a dowel. I find that using the jaws of a pair of pliers will allow air to escape as the dowel is driven out. Do not force the dowel into the hole. If it is near the buttstock, it can split the parent wood with the pressure of the dowel.
Good luck.

[Roger Fisher]

Stone,

Once you bend the tang to match the wrist contour you can also file the tang, particularly the finial end, to fit the stock.  I've been told that many originals have tangs that are filed to a taper (I haven't seen enough original tangs myself to confirm).  This also saves taking more wood out of the wrist/lock area, a weak area in the stock.

Best of luck....
Bill

Yes.

[Stone River]

Thanks all!
     I've put a draft on the tang on all sides.  Bending the tang is not a problem.  My situation at the moment is when I try to inlet the tang the breech area of the barrel keeps wanting to jump forward away from the beech of the stock.  Do you all clamp the barrel or something?  I'm shooting for a straight down inlet as I understand it, which makes perfect sense so how do I keep the barrel tucked up to the breech area so I can go straight down?  Hoping for a trick.  I'm moving painfully slow on the build which is not a concern for me, just trying to do it somewhat correct the 1st. time.

stone river

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

One other issue if I may.  How do you keep the tang from "creeping" the barrel forward?  I'm trying to inlet it straight down and the next thing I know the barrel as moved forward a 1/16" of an inch or so. My Grenville book and my Recreating the American Longrifle is dogearred and tattered, and my DVD's I'm surprised still play.  I think I have read most every post even closely related and I'm still just a little fustrated.
I'm truly thankful for your help.

If it's creeping as you are putting the barrel in sounds like you have a small amount of wood behing the plug tang. A little more wood removal there will probably fix that. Use some transfer color it will show what to remove.

[sleddman]

I hold the barrel level to the stock.  After i soot up the tang area i tap the breach area, LIGHTLY once or twice. Remove the barrel and you will see the high spots to remove. Do this several times till the barrel bottoms out in its channel.  Rember to hold the barrel level and to tight to the rear each time you tap it.   I always have a little slight hump in the breach to file level to the stock this makes a better fit.    At this point I install the trigger and than the tang bolt so the barrel is set.  Than the barrel pins so that nothing will move. Than onto the lock.

[Stone River]

Hey guys,
     I think I am such an idiot!!  If I can bother you all to look at the 2nd picture I posted at the start of this post, do you all notice something?  Isn't the bottom of the bolster of the breechplug suppose to be even with the bottom of the barrel channel?

     If I do that the tang needs to go way, way down into the stock.  When it is done it will be about an 1/8" of an inch below the wood at the top of the wrist area.  Does that sound correct?  Seems like way further down than I see on my DVD's.  I know, but I'm visual learner.

     If bottom of the breechplug bolster is suppose to be even with the barrel channel I feel like such an idiot and I'm very embarassed.   I guess that is why you all say walk away for a while and look at things again when your fresh.

Very humble,
sr

[Long John]

Stone,

You are NOT an idiot!  You are asking valid questions.

Yes the bolster for the tang is supposed to be even with the bottom of the barrel and this often means that there is a fair amount of letting in to do.  You filed a bit of draft on the tang - GOOD.  Now let the tang into the stock until the barrel is flat in the barrel channel.  Don't worry about the depth at the top of the stock - you shave that down to be even with the tang once the barrel/tang is let in.  You want the sides of the tang to be a snug fit but the aft end of the tang to have about a hair-breadth gap.  This allows the wood to compress a little from shooting without chipping out the wood right behind the tang.

Ain't gun-building great?

Best Regards,

JMC

[Stone River]

JMC and all,
     Sign me up for the Darwin Award, I bet I have a fairly good chance of winning this year!   God I'm so worried about removing too much wood, I just didn't think about it and put 2 + 2 together.  I must have hit pause and rewind 50 times and didn't catch that til now!  I consider myself a pretty smart guy, studied hard for months and years on this build and still made a dumba$$ mistake like that!

begging forgiveness,
sr

[b bogart]

If that is the last or worst mistake you make on this build I will be jealous and impressed Give yourself a break and enjoy the journey!!!

[Bill-52]

Stone,

What Bogie said.  One important lesson I learned was recovering from mistakes.  And you figured this one out before doing something irreversible.  I'd say you're ahead of the game.  Have fun, enjoy the challenges.

Bill