New carving tools

[smylee grouch]

With all this talk of keeping tools sharp I think I would like to buy a new and good set of carving tools. I think the name of the ones that others have talked of highly was Phiel(sp). Are these a good set and would the shorter or longer set be the best. If I remember corectly they also came in what they called flex cut, are these any better than the regular ones?  Thanks in advance for info on my christmas gift to myself.    Smylee

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Smylee,

Pfeil Makes great carving tools........ http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2005521/pfeil-Swiss-made-Full-Size-Starter-Set.aspx

I have about 8 or 9 of the original/regular size gouges and veiners and V parting tools.... They are great to work with.

[Dave Dolliver]

There is a brand of American made carving tools called Flex Cut.  They are much smaller than the Swiss tools and take and hold an edge quite well.  They are hand tools, not heavy mallet driven tools.  The Swiss tools are larger than my hands like.  I use the flex cut tools and also a German style from Track of the Wolf that are smaller than the Swiss.  Used to get the German style from Woodcarvers Supply in Fla but they don't list the individual tools of their set any more.

Dave Dolliver

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Pfeil come in three lengths, the palm carvers with the mushroom handles are the ones I use the most. The come in sets at the store but if you go online you can pick and choose, best option I think. Woodcraft.com
The mid size give you more control than the long ones I think. Use these with a mallet and the long ones. They hold a good edge but are expensive, cheaper by the set but you'll get some you never use.

[FALout]

The style of carving tools you use will likely be a learned thing on your part.  I have both long handled and short handled and palm tools.  Personally for the smaller carving on rifles I like using palm and short handled tools.  You might want to buy some of each and decide for yourself.  I know some people don't consider flexcut any good, but I really like them because I can alter them on my grinder.  I buy just the blades and glue on my own handles.  I've got quite a few custom made knives and also micro tools that I purchased from a carving shop.  I took some time off from making rifles to learn carving of different types,  where I found the most useful tool to be a fixed blade razor knife.  When first getting into carving, it's a little daunting deciding what to get, only you can decide on what you need, none of the suggestions are wrong, just stay away from the cheap chinese junk.

[Jerry V Lape]

Smylee,  before buying a "set" of tools besure you know which ones you really use for your style of carving.  Jim Kibler gave out a list of recommended sizes/shapes for a carving class which has been a very useful set now that I have them.  They can come from Pfeil or any number of other makers, but some of the other makes I had already just needed reprofiled like the Pfeil tools to be useful.  You may want to see which of those you already have can be made useful with a little reworking.  When I encounter a need for a new tool, Pfeil is where I look first because they are high quality, and make just about everything imaginable - and they are available locally.  But darned things are really expensive! 

[Jim Kibler]

My pesonal preference is for full lenght tools rather than the palm style.  If stabbing in using only hand pressure either will work fine.  If stabbing in using a mallet, the full length will be better.  For shaping or modeling carving I feel full length tools give better control.  This may seem counter intuitive, but I believe it to be the case.  It's hard to describe, but for modeling of longrifle carving using full length tools, I find it most often best to hold the tool somewhat similar to a pencil, but with fingers straighter.  The fingers not in contact with the chisel can be placed on the workpiece for stability.  I believe full length tools are the preference of most of those accomplished in longrifle carving.

[flintriflesmith]

I agree with Jim about using the "full size" chisels.

I would never recommend buying a pre-assembled set of chisels. You are sure to get several in the set that are not useful in rifle carving (usually too large). Jerry mentioned that Jim had handed out a list of chisels he recommended for his class. At this web page you will find my list:

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/ToolsandTechniques/tools_carving_class.htm

Gary

[smylee grouch]

Thanks everyone for your imput. Thanks Jim and Gary for the sugested sizes, etc. for a good set. Buying what you need might be more expensive by the piece but less expensive overall as you wont be buying what you wont use.  Thanks again every one and happy holidays too.   Smylee

[Captchee]

Pfeil and Flex cut are 2 diffrent tools .Pfeil does not make flex cut .
as was said you can go on line and by Pfeil /Swiss  in sets or you can buy then individualy . your looking at 25-50.00 per tool .
 i also agree with the longer tools . you get more for your money as  you can continue to sharpen them much longer then the smaller  leanghts wich most times are only a 1.00 or 2 cheeper .
as to flex cut . they are a good tool as well . but i find that the Pfeil hold an edge much better .
 the other thing is that flex cut  dsigns there  tools  so that you can  cant  over time use the full leanght of the  tool .
 IE there basicly have a swamped shape to the blade .
 myself i LOVE my Pfeil  chisels . just cant say enough good things about them .

[SBachner]

Can someone please post the list of carving tools Jerry Lape mentioned Jim Kibler suggested?

[alacran]

I bought a Flexcut starter kit over 20 years ago. I was using them to carve furniture. I use them when I do carvings on a rifle. I often use a mallet on them when I need better control. I have yet to damage a handle. They also make a larger version. I have never bought one. You can buy Flexcut tools individually
I have a few Pfeil gouges, but mostly I end up using the Flexcuts.
The biggest advantage in my opinion that Pfeil offers, is the wide variety of sweeps. Also, they have a much greater variety of gouges. The large sweeps are a great advantage when carving large pieces of furniture.

[Dennis Glazener]

I bought a Flexcut starter kit over 20 years ago. I was using them to carve furniture. I use them when I do carvings on a rifle. I often use a mallet on them when I need better control. I have yet to damage a handle. They also make a larger version. I have never bought one. You can buy Flexcut tools individually
I have a few Pfeil gouges, but mostly I end up using the Flexcuts.
The biggest advantage in my opinion that Pfeil offers, is the wide variety of sweeps. Also, they have a much greater variety of gouges. The large sweeps are a great advantage when carving large pieces of furniture.

I have both Pfeil and Flexcut. I use the Flexcut probably as much or more than Pfeil. I have used wooden mallets on both with no damage to either. The Flexcut do sedm to need honing more often than the Pfeil.
Dennus

[rsells]

I had a cheap set of tools when I first started building, and never changed until I wore them out. I purchased some Pfeil tools to replace the ones I had used for years and they are great.  I have some short length and some long length now, and I use the shorter length tools most of the time.  I wish I had made the change to the Pfeil tools 20 years ago.                             
                                                            Roger sells     

[flatsguide]

Other than the length difference of the Pfeil chisels and gouges, the shorter of the two does not have the range of width and sweep that the longer tools have. Can’t really go wrong with either the short or long tool. They feel good in the hand, they take a good edge and hold it well. When they are tempered they don’t appear to be drawn back much so the edge can be brittle if the sharpening is to fine an angle. Sharpened and polished properly they cut lovely, but they are like ‘C’ clamps...you can’t have enough of them.
Cheers Richard

[SBachner]

I've been woodworking for a long while and collect(ed) old tools, so I have a few gouges and reshaped a few flat chisels to skew for cutting dovetails. I don't want to buy a set of pfeil tools. I saw Gary Brumfield's list but was hoping to also see the list Jim suggested.

[Tim Crosby]

I've been woodworking for a long while and collect(ed) old tools, so I have a few gouges and reshaped a few flat chisels to skew for cutting dovetails. I don't want to buy a set of pfeil tools. I saw Gary Brumfield's list but was hoping to also see the list Jim suggested.

 Is this what you're looking for:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28886.msg276499#msg276499

 This may be of some help:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8182.msg77623#msg77623

  This may be an idea, maybe buy it first and see what he recommends:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31881.msg305563#msg305563

    Tim C.

 

[davec2]

Smylee,

I have a lot of carving tools... from very expensive to really cheap... but I find myself using my middle of the road Ramelson carving tools more than any other.....I have found them excellent quality for the money and all of them can carve better than I can....

https://ramelson.com

They are sold by several vendors as well.

[SBachner]

I've been woodworking for a long while and collect(ed) old tools, so I have a few gouges and reshaped a few flat chisels to skew for cutting dovetails. I don't want to buy a set of pfeil tools. I saw Gary Brumfield's list but was hoping to also see the list Jim suggested.

 Is this what you're looking for:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28886.msg276499#msg276499

 This may be of some help:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8182.msg77623#msg77623

  This may be an idea, maybe buy it first and see what he recommends:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31881.msg305563#msg305563

    Tim C.

Yes, thanks Tim!