Author Topic: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany  (Read 6062 times)

Offline TNVolunteerEngineer

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1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« on: November 09, 2011, 10:49:02 PM »
I just acquired what appears to be an early German fowling piece.  If anyone can tell me anything about the maker (Marder in Bonn) , I would be very grateful.  From the crest on the wrist, this gun was owned by a Graf, or Count.  I'm doing some research to see if I can tell which family crest this is.  I am pretty sure that the gun was originally flint. On a gun of this age should I try to reconvert it to flint? I haven't measured the bore, but it is about 14 gauge.   Also, there are straight grooves inside the barrel to collect fouling between shots. The rib is totally separated from the barrel and needs reattached.  There has been an abortive attempt to resolder the rib at some point.   If the rib is properly reattached, the barrel will have to be rebrowned.  Is this too much restoration of a gun of this vintage?  Would anyone suggest a gunsmith to relay the rib?

Here are two sample photos and a link to the photobucket album:






http://s396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/Vol423/German%20ML/

Offline Stophel

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 11:03:24 PM »
Someone has attempted to "improve" the gun by cutting off the fore end, and adding a rib.  If it is straight rifled, it PROBABLy was originally full stocked.  It could have been half stocked, with the nosecap just ahead of the lower rod pipe, but it definitely was not made with a rib.   ;)  And the straight rifling is NOT for collecting fouling (an old shooters' wives' tale), it is for stabilizing shot.

Nice gun, though, mid 18th century or so (the butt is pretty narrow, which makes me think it's later).  It was definitely originally flint.  
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 11:05:01 PM by Stophel »
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Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 08:07:29 AM »
VOL423 is asking about someone to help restore this firearm and needs some recommendations.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 07:30:20 PM by Jerry V Lape »

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »
VOL423,
I emailed you information on contacts for your restoration work.
Dennis
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 05:19:28 PM »
Just a comment on straight grooves. I have seen a late 19th century European Rolling block action shotgun with straight grooves. Had I had the camera I carry all the time now I would have photographed the gun. It was about 16 bore and had 12 or more deep grooves.
I have a friend who has  a smooth rifle barrel in the process of being straight rifled for testing.
Dan
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 08:42:06 PM »
The late Don Brown had a fw 58 caliber barrels made with what appeared to be straight grooves and claimed some pretty fierce velocities from them well over 2000FPS.
The last time I looked,straight grooves were called splines like in the hub of a clutch disc to accomodate an input shaft to a transmission.
I think the Alt Hoch Deutschewort "rifeln"means to make a groove.
Bob Roller


Offline T*O*F

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 09:03:02 PM »
Just a thought.....large bore guns were often rifled very slow to accommodate heavy powder charges, often as much as 1 turn in 120".  To a person looking down the bore in a rifle that has a 40" or shorter barrel, the rifling would appear to be straight.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 12:47:15 AM »
I have read that the straight rifling/grooves were there as effort to keep fouling from hindering loading. I assume the fouling would be pushed into the grooves. Don't know if its true or not. Anyone else have any ideas?
Dennis
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Offline TNVolunteerEngineer

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Re: 1700s German Fowling Piece by Marder in Bonn, Germany
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 04:57:59 PM »
I also was told that straight rifling was to collect fouling.  But someone corrected me and said it was to improve shot patterns.   As late as the mid 1900s, trap shooters were using straight rifling to improve patterns.  John Phillip Sousa used it in his trap guns, I believe.  I seriously doubt that there would be a measurable improvement if subjected to scientific scrutiny.


But my original posting was to find someone to restore the gun. One man who seemed to know what he was talking about wouldn't do the work because he was too busy, recommended that the gun be reconverted to flint and a replacement piece for the cut off stock be installed.  That could be pricey. I may just discretely reconnect the keel under the barrel and put it on the wall as is.   Or I might sell it and put the money toward another gun I just found.

Would anyone want to hazard a guess as to what is present worth is?

Allan