Incised carving

[George F.]

I'm TRYING my hand at incised carving on a PA fowler. It's deceiving how difficult it is to make it look decent. Is there any good examples that I could view to give me a boost in the right direction....B-r-r-r, it's cold this morning in the 20's...   Geo.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

George, one of the best examples in my small experience with incised carving is the work of Jacob Kuntz.  His major layout is all incised, and some of his elements are sculpted BELOW the plane.  The effect is dramatic, beautiful, and there is no ground to relieve.
This first one is courtesy of Tom Curran and is of the lavishly decorated Kuntz in the MET.

The next one is the Kuntz inspired rifle that Cody is building - hope you don't mind sharing this Cody.

The next two are of my effort at a Kuntz styled rifle, and I used elements in its design from both of the rifles displayed in the MET.

[Dphariss]

Very nice indeed.

Dan

[George F.]

Boy Taylor,I'm running out of ways to compliment you on your work. Thanks for sharing, but that is WAY to advanced for the simple lines and spirals that I'm doing. And another question, How do you read an old carving like that Kuntz rifle and come out with that beautiful design and layout? Incredible!! I'm just doing a few spirals and some simple accent lines and alittle chip accenting. After looking at that I'm glad I'm starting with the basics...Geo.

[smallpatch]

George,

In my opinion, well executed, incised carving, is by far the most difficult to execute.

You have no room for correcting miscuts and goofs.

With relief carving, you can at least modify your design to get rid of such problems.  With incised..... not so much.

One of the other really nice guns, is the A Vernor in RCA.  Beautiful, clean, simple, yet very elegant.

[LynnC]

D. Taylor,
Nice Work!  How do you drive your chisels?  Any tips?..................Lynn

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thank you lads.  I use a 60 degree Dembart parting tool chisel that I think is advertised as a "veiner".  i use the push engraving technique where the chisel is gripped in the palm of the hand, with only the short cutting part out perhaps an inch or so, and grip the work with the other hand, using the thumbs as brakes against each other.  But for long bold lines, I just push it free hand.  I'm going to try the chasing technique soon for better control.
As far as design goes, with a good clean flat photo of the original to work from, it isn't difficult to transfer the design to my own wood.  I sometimes make a drawing on paper and transfer it to the wood with carbon paper, but usually just draw right on the stock.  I keep erasing and redoing it until it pleases me.
The design looks overwhelming when you first see it, but it is made up of simple elements that flow together to form the whole.  Break it down starting with the big "C" and "S" curves, filling in details later.  One thing I tried to teach kids in art classes was to "use the whole paper".  Especially Lehigh stuff uses up a good portion of the available area.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

These two pics show me cutting the lines, and the finished incised carving around the tang area.  I just inch the cutter along a tiny bit at a time, rather than just plough through the wood.  Everything under control, and the chisel as sharp as possible - otherwise, you tear the wood.  I usually make the cut full depth in the first pass.  the chip carving behind the breech and around the silver inlay dramatizes the carving.  Kuntz was a master of design for certain.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's a couple from the Rupp rifle I brought with me to Dixons in '07.  They show the continuous chip that comes with a controlled uniform cut.

[Acer Saccharum]

I hate you.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Sorry Tom - I should have asked first before I posted your picture.  Were it not for your research and generosity, I would never have built the rifle.

[Acer Saccharum]

It's not the picture I hate you for, you gave proper credi to the Met and me.

What I hate you for.....

And I think I may not be alone in this area......

Is your, don't be offended, if you can help it..........

ability to carve so neat and clean, just by pushing BY HAND, to finish depth, all in one go.

For that I hate you, and I think Jim FIlipski probably hates you, though he is too much a gentleman to say so.

I know as moderator, I am not suppose to say such things, but I think I am speaking for 97% of the ALR, so I feel justified.

Tom

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I consider it a term of endearment Tom...so thanks very much.

I have that A. Verner rifle on my plate pretty soon.  The carving on it is awesome... and all that wire inlay...can't wait.

[AndyThomas]

I wish I could do that!

Taylor,

I'm interested in how you have the cutting edge set up. Thinking of it as a graver, what is the angle of the cutting edge? How long is the distance from the point to the heel (or what ever it's called), the straight section that slides along at the bottom of the groove?

Well, any way,
Andy

[Paddlefoot]

Man I've got to second that question 'cause I never could get that Dembart tool to cut anything worth a darn..'cept maybe my finger.
Beautiful work all around. Thanks for sharing.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

'll take a picture of my chisel tomorrow and post it.  Sharpening these little beggars is tricky - and this is just the way it turned out.   

[Nor Cal Mikie]

This is my first post and I just stopped over here to look around. What a surprise. All I can say is  "Beautiful Work". A feast for the eyes!
And what do you do in your spare time? 

[Acer Saccharum]

Taylor, I am just totally astounded by your work. I don't hate you at all. I am in awe of the rifle, when looking at it as a whole, I suppose. But I remind myself of your advice, the carving is made up of only one little line at a time.

Tom

[T*O*F]

Thank you lads.  I use a 60 degree Dembart parting tool chisel that I think is advertised as a "veiner".  i use the push engraving technique where the chisel is gripped in the palm of the hand, with only the short cutting part out perhaps an inch or so, and grip the work with the other hand, using the thumbs as brakes against each other.  But for long bold lines, I just push it free hand.

Taylor,
I find it extremely amusing at this turn of events.  When I posted a while back using this tool for the exact same purpose, all I got was a bunch of flack from those who intimated that I was full of $#@* and couldn't achieve the same control which you had exhibited, including using it to do free-hand checkering or outline of the same.  However, that little continuous curl of wood can also be the thickness of a cat whisker if one desires.

[Clark Badgett]

Wow, thanks for providing a bar to aspire to. Right now I just wan to get the very basics down.

[Tim Crosby]

I consider it a term of endearment Tom...so thanks very much.

I have that A. Verner rifle on my plate pretty soon.  The carving on it is awesome... and all that wire inlay...can't wait.

 Neither can I. Do you suppose you could post as you go on that one?

Thanks, Tim C.

PS: Great pictures above.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You bet Tim...depending of course on how it actually DOES go.  This forum has been a great inspiration to me too.  It has caused me to aspire to do things better, and with a closer eye to the details that give a rifle the flavour that sets it apart, or rather closer to, the originals.
As swell as the Dembart tool, I frequently use chisels, gouges and sweeps whose curves match the design.  These usually follow the cuts rather than replace them.  In other words, I use the parting tool first for the outline.  I never use it for chip carving unless the chip needs to be of a triangular nature.
I'm in an archery tournament this weekend, so I'll take and post that picture later today.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

These are not very good, but here's what a worn down Dembart "Veiner" looks like.  Notice I have not sharpened them at 90 deg. to the bottom, which is I think the correct way to do it.  When they stop cutting, I just lay them on a stone and put the bevels back.  I sharpen them back quite a bit producing a very thin edge. 
Stoning the bottom "heel" takes care of that annoying little spike that gets in the way.  These two are a 90 and a 60 deg.  I've been using them since 1979 and they need replacing.  Make sure you strop the edges well after stoning - inside and out.

[lew wetzel]

taylor,i really love your work,you execute everything you do with such finess.thank you for sharing your techniques and pics.ya know i would really like to spend a week or so with you....

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Better bring your runners Lew...and thanks!