broken mainspring help

[wwpete52]

I have Pedersoli Frontier flintlock rifle that has a broken mainspring (see photo). I have searched the TOW and DGW websites. They list a few Pedersoli replacement mainsprings but not one for the Frontier. The rifle is the same as the Cabela's Blue Ridge rifle.

VTI has one but they want $47 for it!!!

Would anyone know where I could find one for a right hand flinter?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I think Beauchamp has them  http://www.flintlocksetc.com/

[Bob Roller]

From the point of view of a lock MAKER,I would say $47 is a  reasonable price for a forged spring. I get $50 for any mainspring I make as an  individual item. This objection to  the price of a replacement of a critical component  is in my opinion an example of a mindset that says ANYthing for a muzzle loader must be cheap regardless of the time and effort it takes to make it and without regard to the level of skill and effort needed to make it.
I have had people in my shop that would start out by saying"Why I remember when I could buy a lock for $12", and my answer was to show them the door. I can still make a $12 lock but the payment MUST be made in pre-1935 real silver dollars in pristine condition.
It would be an interesting study to know how many fine machinists and bench craftsmen have said "never again" after encountering such attitudes from gun enthusiasts over the years.

Bob Roller            

[David R. Pennington]

Bob, a good friend of mine who is a blacksmith has a good answer for the people who look at his items for sale and remark that they could buy it cheaper at Walmart. He says very patiently, "yes you can, but I believe the little children in China who make them ought to be in school or playing instead of in the factories." I like the silver dollar answer as well.

[wwpete52]

I guess the point you are missing is that this is a replacement part  from an import mass produced manufacturer.  It is not a one at a time custom made gun.  $47 for such a product from a mass produced company is over the top.  I am a blacksmith. I sell very nice items at fair prices.  I resent it when a company  takes advantage of their customers this way just because they can.  Check the DGW catalog. Other mainsprings that are mass produced are about 1/3 the price.  If I was going to buy a custom made, one at a time, mainspring I would not be surprised at the higher price but the price of a Pedersoli made spring is nuts.

[T*O*F]

The $47 includes an educational fee.  It teaches one the price of removing springs with vise grips.

[wwpete52]

I use a mainspring vise.

[Captchee]

 Its not only the main spring guys . it’s the whole gun .
 Set down some time and look at building that gun from  replacement parts .
 Its going to cost 5X what the gun sells for .
 For the price of the barrels  you could buy a better barrel from Don or LC
 Same with the stock . Come on 500.00 for a low grade piece of walnut .

 While I understand and agree 100% with Bob . The fact simply is that  for the cost charged for the main spring  for this rifle , one could  for  another 70-90.00 buy a much better lock from Jim . For that mater  for the cost of the factory replacement spring, buy a better one from Bob .
 Pete
 Have you sat down with the ToW catalog and checked through the  locks for  possible  springs that would work for you ?
 
 My experience however with Pedersoli locks  is that fixing one part , just leads to another one failing. So don’t be surprised if putting in a batter spring only results in a sheered  notch in the tumbler or broken sear . Again that’s been my experience . doesn’t mean it will be yours . Im just saying  

The $47 includes an educational fee.  It teaches one the price of removing springs with vise grips.
 

maybe . but probably more to  a lesson on the value of the US dollar .
 that’s what happens when  they sell a gun for 3-450.00 USD and then sell the repair parts based on  exchange rate .  
  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

That mainspring was made by folding a piece of ~ 1/8" stock to form the bend, and then the rest of the spring tapered and the ends formed.  In doing so, there is not enough metal at the bend to withstand it being flexed.  There should be at least 3/16" of steel at the bend, so that it is not moving, but rather the leaves are doing the work.
Perhaps now is the time to put your skills as a blacksmith to work, and make yourself a much better spring.  You'll be much happier than buying another $47 POS spring, that is likely going to eventually fail anyway.

[Bob Roller]

BE CAREFUL with those Pedersoli mainsprings. They are usually strong beyond their obvious appearance and if they slip in a pair of pliers or vise grips for that matter they can hurt you. They pack a wallop all out of proportion to their size. I use a mainspring vise I made to manage them.
I have made kits to change the Pedersoili/Gibbs long range locks to feel more like the old English locks and get rid of overtravel to get past the fly to full cock but now these locks seem to be properly timed and there is no need for the conversion kits and I have had no inquiries about them since the death of Joe Hepsworth in Ohio.
Before I send this,I see that there are responses to this thread. First,I doubt if Jim Chambers or anyone else has a lock for anywhere near $70-90.
Taylor is right on when he says that 1/8" steel is the correct thickness to make a mainspring from. The tapers on the upper and lower limbs should be doing the work and if they are doing their job,who knows how long they will last. I recently repaired a frizzen on a lock I made in 1973 that has been used by three owners and springs as well as the tumbler,fly and sear were as new.
To David R. We must not forget prison labor as well as that of small children on some of this junk from the PRC. Some of those poor folks have been in jail for so long they think a prisoner is another nationality.

Bob Roller

[rtadams]

Bob Roller,

I usually do not reply to these type of discussions, but I can not contain myself on this subject. I totally agree with your comments.

Best Regards,

Robert

[Acer Saccharum]

I have been thinking of making a forged mainspring for one of my locks, because I don't like the cast one. But I have not started on this project, because of the time involved. $50 for a handmade main is looking pretty good.

[David R. Pennington]

I forged a mainspring for a lock that I wasn't happy with and got a better spring than the original cast spring. I'm a student and relatively new builder and I just mainly wanted to see if I could do it. I'm still not happy with it though. The problem is I stayed too close to the original springs dimensions and should have left the lower leaf thicker I think. The new spring is snappier than the old one but still not quite strong enough to give good sparks every time unless the flint is razor sharp.

[Bob Roller]

David,
Reheat the spring and open it up a little more,maybe 1/4" more,reharden and temper it and see what you get. What material did you use to make the spring from? I use 1075 exclusively and have for decades with no trouble reported.

Bob Roller

[Captchee]

 

I doubt if Jim Chambers or anyone else has a lock for anywhere near $70-90

Please note that i said for "another "70-90.00 dollars .
  were also talking a blue ridge not a gibbs or Tryon  
 
 i wonder , would you pay the price  to replace the Pedersoli lock 212.00 + when you could by  a better lock from jim  ?
for that mater by a L&R  replacement lock for the same rifle for 148 .00. "LOCK-LR-06-F L&R's RPL-06-F Flint Lock"
 is the Pedersoli lock worth the asking price IMO nope  neither is the cost of their main spring or any other part on that gun

 i have personally seen one blue ridge thats main spring broke while  the rifle set against the tent wall .
 i replaced that mains spring with a factory spring . 2 months later the rifle was back with a  broken full cock notch .. i repaired it . Then the  1/2 cock broke and another local  gunsmith  repaired it again .
 the 3rd tumbler  that was sent to me was so soft you could cut it with a file .
  if the owner had took my advise the first time , he could have bought a  better lock and been done with it . but instead it took  the same cost  in parts before he wised up .
 in the end he paid for a new lock just in parts . then paid again when he bought a descent lock  .
you want names and numbers , send me a PM and ill give you two  diffrent people to call. the one who owned the above rifle and  another who went through near the same issues .

 Im not the only one with these experiences eather PETE . Do a search of this forum  and you will find others whos opinion of Pedersoli quality  leaves a lot to be desired .
 50.00 for a forged spring  IMO is worth the cost . But 48 for a replacement Pedersoli spring is not worth the cost
 that’s my opinion Pete
Seriously , when a company is wanting to charge you 33.00 for a  buckhorn rear sight  and 30.00 for a front blade  that shouldn’t cost more then 6.00   or 42.00 for the butt plate on that rifle ? thats from VTI
SERIOUSLY ??

 i have FLE's price list  to . i can tell you that to build that rifle  for the cost of parts ,  would run a person near 1500.00.
 i had a customer who replaced their barrel . cost over 300.00 5 years ago . 300 bucks . would you pay that for a pedersoli when you could have a  Getz or Rice ?
but ha , if a person really thinks the quality is there , by all means

 

[wwpete52]

If I were to try and make a mainspring what type of steel should I use?

[bob in the woods]

I made one spring, mainly to have the experience of doing it. It went on a lock I made, [ same reason- wanted to see if I could do it ]. In the end I wimped out, and used a Siler tumbler on the thing.
I never begrudge the $ of a decent lock anymore !!!   A good forged spring is worth $50 easy !
The import locks I've worked on had slop enough in the tumbler/plate that there was side load on the notch,spring engagement.. Personally, I'd just replace the lock with an L&R  RPL .  An option worth thinking about.

[James Wilson Everett]

Pete,

I use 1095 carbon steel and have had very good success with it.  After hardening I temper at 810F which is beyond the typical temper colors way of judging the heat of the metal.  Other lock makers use 1075 which is another good spring steel, I don't know what their temper heat is, but it is probably lower than 810F. 

Jim Everett

[wwpete52]

Thanks Jim!

[wwpete52]

Found a mainspring after calling Dixie. $6.95!

[doug]

If I were to try and make a mainspring what type of steel should I use?

     I realize that you have now found a spring but would add to the comments of previous people; I make 5 to 10 mainsprings per year and forge most of them out of 3/8 drill rod which may or may not be 1095 steel.  I usually make the upper leg .1" or a little thicker and continue that to just around the bend then taper down to about .070" at the tip.  I used to forge the hook in at the end but now leave a lump there and file the hooked portion to shape.  In terms of cost, think how much time; it takes me close to 3 hours to make a spring counting forging, grinding and filing to dimension, bending and then fitting to the lock plus tempering

cheers Doug

[P.W.Berkuta]

Found a mainspring after calling Dixie. $6.95!

While you are ordering that main spring get some of their spring stock and make some springs to practice on - just in case you need another. Their spring steel is 1075 which is oil harden  .

[Bob Roller]

The last time I looked,drill rod was called 0-1.
1095 or 1075 are both recognized spring materials and easy to work. I have used 1075 for over 40 years,come to think of it,for 48 years and it has worked well. I can't visualize hammering anything out of 0-1. I make hollow mills from it and an occasional rotary file when ever needed. IF I was going to try to make a spring from 0-1,I have some that is 1/8"x 5/8" in flat stock.

Bob Roller

[T*O*F]

The last time I looked,drill rod was called 0-1
I was going to try to make a spring from 0-1

I tried to make a spring by forging drill rod flat.  It exploded when I hit it with the hammer, flinging red hot globules all over the shop.

[John Archer]

Too hot.....it's finicky stuff.

John