What's a good calibre for your hunting area?

[excess650]

"Forsythe, hunting in India, states that the 16 bore is about as small as anyone would use for dangerous game.
His 14 bore rifle with a 15 gauge ball would drive a hardened ball through an Indian Elephants head from side to side with a charge of 5 drams of powder. Hall's #2 IIRC. Probably similar to FFF or FF."

I have shot a .69 that weighs right at 7#.  His load would be similar to that mentioned above except 100gr Swiss ffg.  My own similar rifle (same stock, 2"x5" buttplate, 3-1/8" drop) is a .62 but weighs 8#.  My normal load is 100gr ffg (Goex, KIK, Elephant, Diamondback...it doesn't care) but I've shot 120gr and 140gr.  Even with 140gr mine is easier to manage, and more comfortable to shoot, although a dozen shots at 120-140gr tends to give me a headache.

Ross Seyfried wrote that his "pet .66 (Purdey)loaded with 130gr ffg thumped big bull elk as hard or harder than anything I have ever used, including my 340 Weatherby".  He went on to say velocity was only 1330fps.  The rifle weighed 7#.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

2.75" HE rockets do a pretty good job of stopping elephant....my only experience.......

But 90 gr in my .62 is my limit for having fun........ I guess if I were in the woods where I was in danger from big cats or elephants I might load heavier assuming that one shot may be all that i get/need...........

So I hunt in GA with a .50 cal and with the .62 cal...Have a .58 on the bench.. it is really light... I have been wondering what the recoil is going to be like....  Anyway Whitetail. bobcat, bear are about all we have other than pigs... Caliber is not as important with pigs as having multiple shots available....no time to reload....  62 or .54 rifle and at least .50 pistol as backup as well as a well armed partner seem most safe if you don't use dogs..which I don't.

[excess650]

How light is that "really light" .58 going to finish?  My 7-1/4# .58 is pretty milld compared to my 8# .62 with same 100gr powder charge.  Both have similar width and height butts and drop. 

If you're building a 1-1/4" wide butt with tight crescent and lots of drop, you might want to rethink your project.

[wattlebuster]

I've used 54s for over 30 yrs now here in Bama on our deer an that is way more than enough for a deer. We are starting to get alot of hogs around my neck of the woods an the 54 should handle them as well so my 54s is all I need. But I want an Im gonna have by next fall a 62 cal virginia. Need it NO, want it YES

[lakehopper]

In PA the smallest caliber bp rifle permitted to use  is the 45, I have shot deer with my 50 and still looking to harvest a pa deer with my 54.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

How light is that "really light" .58 going to finish?  My 7-1/4# .58 is pretty milld compared to my 8# .62 with same 100gr powder charge.  Both have similar width and height butts and drop. 

If you're building a 1-1/4" wide butt with tight crescent and lots of drop, you might want to rethink your project.

Its a 1750 English stalking rifle with a 42 inch barrel and a  1 7/8 wide relatively flat buttplate..Like a fowling piece buttplate. She slims down remarkably going forward... I think about 7# when finished.

[excess650]

(light .58)
Its a 1750 English stalking rifle with a 42 inch barrel and a  1 7/8 wide relatively flat buttplate..Like a fowling piece buttplate. She slims down remarkably going forward... I think about 7# when finished.
[/quote]

That should be comfortable enough to shoot.  With that thin of a barrel, barrel mirage may be more of a problem, assuming low sights.

[BrownBear]

I'm kind of a 58 cal nut with six of them, three in that 7-8 pound range, two with hooked butts and one with a "shotgun" butt.  I can report that with charges less than about 90 grains of 2f, the difference doesn't really matter. But starting at about 90, and moreso as you increase the charge, the more surface area and the flatter the butt, the better.

It's not that you can't find a comfortable way to shoot the hooked butts with heavier charges, but you certainly don't want to mount the gun quickly and shoot it with the butt haphazardly placed. My 12 pound 58 is fine with larger charges and doesn't really force careful butt placement till you get up to 130-140 grains.  But a light gun bites back if you don't pay attention.

[Daryl]

Butt plate width is only one criteria - drop at the comb and heel are also importand.  If there's enough drop at the comb to have a relatviely flat comb, ie: level with the barrel, the stock drops away from your face on recoil, instead of rising up to smack it.  The greater the angle of the comb to heel, the faster the rise.  That is why heavy bore sized English guns have quite level, parallel combs.

Just measured the butts of my .69, 20 bore, .577 Musketoon and Kodiak .58 DR. the first 2 mentioned have 1.910" butt plates with the Musketoon slightly narrower at 1.800" and the DR runs 1.75".   All of these guns fairly well follow English design and are easy to shoot with heavier than normal loads. 

Even the light weight, 7 pound Musketoon, handles 110gr. to 120gr. quite easily, although it does bark loudly with it's short 24" bl.  I didn't chronograph that load in it, but did measure a mere 75gr. 2F GOEX at 1,308fps, a speed that Lyman required over 110gr. to make in their book. I was pleased with the stubby gun velocity and accuracy wise with patched round ball. 

My .58 Hawken at 11 pounds was not pleasant to shoot with 120gr. or over, yet it demanded 140gr. 2F to shoot accurately at 100yards.  That was too much and I sold it due to it's recoil-induced pain - narrow, hooked and rounded side to side butt - a disasterous shape in a gun that kicks.

[northmn]

I have to finish up a light weight flintlock 58 English sporting rifle in half stock with a 1" barrel at 32 inches.  It is built with the English style with the 2" wide buttplate but the comb is parrellel to the bore and the drop is adequate for open sights.  It fits me and may not someone else.  While I have to finish the rifle, I have carried it and shot it and find it both well balanced and comfortable to shoot.  I made it in 58 as that would have been a very small bore English rifle.  As it is not an exact replica but a "sort of" using the designs of a English rifle that was good enough.  It is a hunting rifle and not a Rondy show piece.  Mirage is not an issue with a hunting rifle as we only shoot them once.  The most popular traditional rifle calibers in my neck of the woods were the 50 and 54.  The 50 is really and I have taken deer with one in the brush and bear have been taken by others with them.  The 54 is more popular with those that bought or built custom.  The 45 has been used by some and takes vension.   Another popular gun was the North West replicas in 20 ga and 24 ga.  Quite a few deer have been taken with them.  The larger bores are generally Hawkin styled replicas and those using longrifles tend to use the 45's and 50's.

DP

[Standing Bear]

To the original question.  .50 is good.  Smaller requires better shot placement and maybe better tracking skills.  Bigger doesn't hurt.

[M Tornichio]

I have shot deer with a 45 cal and retrieved them. I hunt with 54 and am about to retire it for a 58. Don't think that I need it, but the last doe I shot with a 58 cal rifle when down very quickly. like less than 3 second don't think it made it more than 10 yards.
Marc

[Dphariss]

I have shot deer with a 45 cal and retrieved them. I hunt with 54 and am about to retire it for a 58. Don't think that I need it, but the last doe I shot with a 58 cal rifle when down very quickly. like less than 3 second don't think it made it more than 10 yards.
Marc

Theoretically the bigger bore will drop them faster. I suppose that if 20 deer were shot with identical hits with a 50 and 58 there might be a difference in how far they travel. But I would not bet MY money on it.
Its not typical for a deer out here to  pile up in less than 35-40 no matter what they are shot with unless the spine is shocked or the shoulders broke.
Heart shot or near heart shot deer often run fastest.
Its mostly whats in the deer's head. I have had them run farther heart shot with a 16 bore than lung shot with a popgun 38-40 WCF BP load. There is no figuring it. But one had me spotted and the other was ambushed. Massive difference in blood trail and wounding but the one with the big hole made it farther anyway ball did not pass through being a frontal "raking shot" and the 200 gr 38-40 did small wound channel, deer made it about 40 yards. So I figure a fatally shot deer will make 30-50 yards and fall dead.
But I would also point out that Sir William Drummond Stewart stated that elk were easier to knock down than mule deer using his 20 bore.
I have had some WTs do some pretty amazing runs with major hits too.
Dan

[wireman]

I hunt with 73 cal here in mt. no luck this year with the flintlock nothing close enough but with my m14 this year got 4point white tail the last day i think that rifle gets heavier every year but it the only one i have with scope.

[Vomitus]

  It's odd that Mulies can absorb so much lead. I shot one once that went 200 yards with a hole through both lungs and heart.

[M Tornichio]

Theoretically the bigger bore will drop them faster. I suppose that if 20 deer were shot with identical hits with a 50 and 58 there might be a difference in how far they travel. But I would not bet MY money on it.
Its not typical for a deer out here to  pile up in less than 35-40 no matter what they are shot with unless the spine is shocked or the shoulders broke.
Heart shot or near heart shot deer often run fastest.
[/quote]

I agree with you. In my case I would like to build one last final big game rifle that I can use in woods walks and hopefully on moose and elk hunts in the future. Don't know if I will ever get a chance to hunt out west, but that is the plan. I really would like to get a moose with a blackpowder rifle.

[Daryl]

During the rut, if the wolves don't have the bull moose dummied down quiet, you can usually call one in within arrowing distance - easy shooting distance.  It's before and after the rut where they're sometimes difficult to find. .58 is a good calibre for moose.

[Stormrider51]

I've been sitting here trying to distill down a 4 hour lecture I used to give EMS students on the subject of the physiology of death into something I can write in a few sentences.  It isn't easy or I'm too long-winded.  I'm sure many of my former students would vote for the latter.  Regardless, here goes.

Death comes to us all in one of three ways, either our brain is physically destroyed, our lungs/heart fail, or we lose too much blood.  The fastest and most efficient way to kill an animal is to destroy its brain.  The second is to destroy its heart.  The third is to do enough damage to the lungs that they can't oxygenate the blood.  The fourth is to cause enough blood loss that the system fails.  The third and fourth methods may occur together.  What about a spine shot you say?  The truth is that a spinal cord hit will drop the animal but death may not come for some time thereafter.  A spinal hit may well require a finishing shot or application of a knife.

Limiting myself to muzzleloading ballistics, bigger is better but it also depends on the size of the game being sought and the placement of the shot.  A .45 is overkill on a rabbit and this is especially true if the ball hits the bunny in the body instead of the head because of wasted meat.  A .36 will kill a moose or elk but the ball had better be placed in the right spot for death to come quickly.  By the same token a .72 will kill a really large game animal but how fast depends on where the animal is hit.  In either case ball size will be less important than placement.

Storm      

[Ray Nelson]

Interesting posts here! Having hunted 35 years now with muzzleloaders, I hunt deer with 50 to 58 caliber rifles...usually get a feel for one of the guns before the hunt. I also hunt with a double rifle 54 cal. rifle time to time during the modern firearm season here in Minnesota and for black bear as well. All these calibers are efficient using round ball and I invoke a 100 yard limit upon myself. No experience hunting moose or elk as yet?

I also have hunted coyotes, fox in the backwoods here and my 40 cal is first choice. Also good varmint caliber...porcupine, badger, raccoon...versatile enough for deer at closer range too.

Also have hunted squirrel and rabbit with a 32 cal being very efficient...even took a sitting ruffled grouse at fairly close range one trail day.

My smoothbores are 24 ga. trade gun mainly for grouse and a Navy Arms 10 gauge jug choked by Myron Olson many years ago for the wild tukey hunts.

These are my choices and hunting requires wise choices...particularly in regards to knowing your gun's capabilities and don't deviate. If your effective kill limit is 40 yards for your caliber choice...it is 4o yards. If it's 80 yards...it is not 100 yards. It's important in my opinion to live by your gun's particular requirements and go home happy each day with or without game harvested.

Keep muzzleloaders  the weapon of choice!

Ray  

[alsask]

Where I hunt [Alberta]you should not need more than a .50 PRB but I own .54's.  In some areas there are grizzly but not generaly where I have been going.  Lots of black bear.

 A friend of mine has shot 2 deer and a bull moose, all with a .45 PRB with  no problem although I believe at least a .54 would be better for moose/elk.

The furthest I ever had a deer run was with the first shot, 30.06, through the heart.  I didn't realize it until I gutted the animal.  It was about 200 yards and I could distinctly hear the "thwack" when the bullet hit.  He went about 30 yards and layed down.

[longcruise]

Largest game where I hunt in CO is moose.  I don't expect to ever hunt them so my guns are geared to the largest probable game which is elk.  Hunt almost exclusively with .54s and feel comfortable with that.  No reason not to have a bigger bore though.

[camerl2009]

if i where to use a front stuffer for up north here in ont it would be a .72 double with hard cast round balls and thats not even for the little black bears thats for the moose that dont think before charging(i seen one ram a tree  and i guy i know who was a trucker had one run into the trailer on his truck thay dont use there little bit of brains thay have.)

if i where going ferther north in ont(polar bear) or where there would be griz same gun or bigger with hard cast  round  balls

whight of the gun is a good thing when you get above say .62 cal with a rifled bore a 10lb gun still recoils alot when you get to a .72 and alot more when you get bigger 10 bore gun you would want about 16lb and when you get into bigger guns you want about 20lb + theres a reason for the weight its so you dont blow you shoulder off  and even then you still geting alot of kick(some day i'll get a elephant rifle when i take a lone out  )

[Dphariss]

  It's odd that Mulies can absorb so much lead. I shot one once that went 200 yards with a hole through both lungs and heart.

I shot a WT doe at about 30 yards once, certainly not more than 40. 54 with 100 gr. Ball passed though just under the little arch in the shoulder blade behind the socket on both sides. Deer turned almost 90 degrees and bounded away as if unhurt. Made 10 bounds across a hayfield, I counted them and died mid-air before touching the ground the 11th time. Distance, 200 long steps, time? 10 seconds maybe?
Just does not seem possible.

The rifle in this video, so power was not a concern.




Dan

[Stormrider51]

"I shot a WT doe at about 30 yards once, certainly not more than 40. 54 with 100 gr. Ball passed though just under the little arch in the shoulder blade behind the socket on both sides. Deer turned almost 90 degrees and bounded away as if unhurt. Made 10 bounds across a hayfield, I counted them and died mid-air before touching the ground the 11th time. Distance, 200 long steps, time? 10 seconds maybe?
Just does not seem possible."

That 10 or so seconds between the shot and the deer losing consciousness is the key.  As long as there is sufficient oxygen present the brain will continue to function.  Here's some examples from my days as a paramedic.

Two men got into a disagreement over a woman in a bar.  They "took it outside" where both retrieved handguns from their trucks.  At a distance of approximately six feet, the first fired a 125 gr .357 Mag bullet which struck the others heart and completely destroyed it.  In spite of a fatal wound the other guy managed to fire five of the seven rounds in his .45 auto and connected with all five.  Both were dead when we arrived on the scene.  

In another situation a victim who took a .38 Special +P through both lungs was still conscious and able to speak when we arrived but went into cardiac arrest during the trip to the hospital.

In a third situation the victim was unaware he had been shot with a .22 LR.  The bullet passed through the skin and fat on one of his love handles causing no real damage.  He was walking and talking until I pointed out the tiny red spot on his t-shirt.  He pulled up the shirt, saw the wound, and passed out cold.

As I said in an earlier post, only a hit to the brain or spine will reliably drop a critter in his or her tracks.  A heart shot may or may not result in the animal dropping instantly and a hit to one or both lungs may allow the animal to run a surprising distance.  It all depends on how quickly the oxygen supply to the brain is shut off.

Storm

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Head shots drop em fast. save meat. Close range in the woods makes that a pretty safe shot. longer range the heart is prbably safer but a heart shot whitetail can cover some distance..and fast!